Dive op with great rental equipment, small boats, gear storage?

[Dave Dillehay]

Dear Christi,

With all due respect, you are wrong. We never routinely share air with an out of air, or low on air diver. It is only done with a solid pre briefing and while the diver still has 1000 psi in a high capacity tank, which is much more than 1000 PSI in an aluminum tank. Also, closely connected to a dive instructor who can watch every move. WE also will not do that with a diver who is nervous or reluctant to do so.

After disconnecting we all still have 1000 psi and plenty of dive left until we get out at 500 PSI. Would we encourage it with other buddy pairs not closely watched by the instructor...no. We have been doing this for 20 years, with lots of divers who get very long AND SAFE dives.

Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

 

[cvchief]

Well, I don't have an octo. I've only used rentals. In cert training, I breathed off 6 different octos- 3 of them let water in, one to the extent that I couldn't ever get a breath an panicked. It was right side up, though supposedly these are the kind that can be upside down and still work, but the instructor checked that one and told me it was bad. The others I just kind of took itty bitty breaths until I could surface, assuming octos did that.

As for reg out and smile- I do reg in/out drills every dive just to be used to having it out of my mouth, but I like my air in my mouth. No smiling from me. (Maybe I need to add taking my buddy's octo to my safety stop practice list -generally I just do a mask flood. I mean, I've got 3 minutes to kill.)

Good gravy. I am not a scuba instructor, repair technician, DM or otherwise credentialed, but I NEVER had a reg do that to me nor would I find that acceptable. EVER. I have heard of failures causing that, but NEVER from a working reg. That's just crazy talk. No freakin' wonder you are a little nervous. "Yea, half the time I would breath water... Yea..." That would have ending diving for lots of people.

So we should be good for smiling pics. Maybe we save the taking off the mask and putting on sunglasses until next trip?

---------- Post added October 31st, 2013 at 12:40 PM ----------

It would be nice if in training they just had the buddy take from your mouth and then have you grab your own octo. That way you are used to that being the emergency procedure. Because it does seem like that is way more likely to happen.

Oh, yea, diving with me, you have to take my reg from my mouth should you need it. I have a Air2 on the inflator hose, so pretty much I have to use that one. Please get my attention and signal your intent before ripping the reg out of my mouth in a panic. If possible....

 

[Skittl1321]

So we should be good for smiling pics. Maybe we save the taking off the mask and putting on sunglasses until next trip?

I am NOT doing that. (Odd, I had no problem with the mask being off in the pool, I could swim around all day without it; but as soon as I got in open water and had to take my mask off, I was not happy. No idea what triggered the difference.)

Don't worry, I won't rip your reg out of your mouth. Unless my tank actually fails, I'm still a "look at pressure gauge every 20 seconds" kind of diver. Plus I usually dive while holding Kevin's hand, so I'll just take his. I am really really interested to see how my air consumption in the ocean is though.

 

[cvchief]

I am NOT doing that. (Odd, I had no problem with the mask being off in the pool, I could swim around all day without it; but as soon as I got in open water and had to take my mask off, I was not happy. No idea what triggered the difference.)

Don't worry, I won't rip your reg out of your mouth. Unless my tank actually fails, I'm still a "look at pressure gauge every 20 seconds" kind of diver. Plus I usually dive while holding Kevin's hand, so I'll just take his. I am really really interested to see how my air consumption in the ocean is though.

Well I was hoping you wouldn't rip it out if you DIDN'T need it.


I imagine at first your air consumption will suck as you go, "OMG" both in awe and excitement. Maybe as the week goes on, you will begin to soak of the majesty of the experience and it will calm and quiet you. I find it very relaxing overall.

On the bright side, usually the guys run out first.

 

[Christi]

Dear Christi,

With all due respect, you are wrong. We never routinely share air with an out of air, or low on air diver. It is only done with a solid pre briefing and while the diver still has 1000 psi in a high capacity tank, which is much more than 1000 PSI in an aluminum tank. Also, closely connected to a dive instructor who can watch every move. WE also will not do that with a diver who is nervous or reluctant to do so.

After disconnecting we all still have 1000 psi and plenty of dive left until we get out at 500 PSI. Would we encourage it with other buddy pairs not closely watched by the instructor...no. We have been doing this for 20 years, with lots of divers who get very long AND SAFE dives.

Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

With all due respect - I was not referring to Aldora nor did I ever mention you or Aldora. I was specifically addressing the comment I quoted.

---------- Post added October 31st, 2013 at 11:42 AM ----------

It would be nice if in training they just had the buddy take from your mouth and then have you grab your own octo. That way you are used to that being the emergency procedure. Because it does seem like that is way more likely to happen.

A good instructor will put you through this exact same scenario! Unfortunately, some instructors just go through the motions and have the student perform the minimum performance requirements to simply "pass."

 

[Fireworkswi]

Christi- You know us. Kristina and I did our Nitrox certification with you in August. The two dives that air was shared the divers consisted of DM Hector, Myself, Kristina, one other person, Steve and Kami of LBD.

Again, in my opinion the two dives where air was shared seemed safe to me. Matter of fact, never experiencing the sharing of air before heightened our awareness of what may need to be done in an emergency situation.

How do you know the procedures are different from Dave's?

Are you insinuating that LBD procedures are not safe like Dave's?

Above your rant started by saying this is NOT a slight on other dive OP's.

 

[Christi]

Christi- You know us. Kristina and I did our Nitrox certification with you in August. The two dives that air was shared the divers consisted of DM Hector, Myself, Kristina, one other person, Steve and Kami of LDB.

Again, in my opinion the two dives where air was shared seemed safe to me. Matter of fact, never experiencing the sharing of air before heightened our awareness of what may need to be done in an emergency situation.

How do you know the procedures are different from Dave's?

Are you insinuating that LBD procedures are not safe like Dave's?

Above your rant started by saying this is NOT a slight on other dive OP's.

No - it is not a slight against any dive op - I maintain that - and you know that I am a fan of Liquid Blue.

The point I am making, was addressing your comment/question about the safety of the practice of the DM sharing air in a non-emergency situation in general - not your specific situation (because I don't know it) and not against any specific person or op, and it is not attacking any specific person or op. I don't know if LB routinely does this, but my position does not change regardless if they are my friends or not. I don't know the situation or scenario in which you were sharing air - but again, I am speaking in general terms regarding the routine practice of sharing air in non-emergency situations - which happens far too often here. I can see how I was not clear with my reference.

My position, based on my experience and training, is that ROUTINE sharing of air by the DM to extend bottom times goes against standard training and safety protocol. If it is done under special circumstances on occasion, that is not necessarily a violation of these protocols and should be practiced with discretion.

If I recall, you and Kristine were the only divers on the boat - with Steve, Kami and the DM, basically giving you and Kristine a private DM (I would expect a private DM to share air) - so there weren't other divers to tend to - so yes, that would be a special circumstance - and the points I made above wouldn't apply. I don't know at what point Hector put you on his octo - but as Dave states, the diver and donee should be back on their own air with 1000psi if this procedure is practiced for a non-emergency situation.

 

[blue steal]

I wouldn't be against sneaking up on someone and stealing a few breaths off their octo to stretch my dive, but only if no one saw me.

Ah cvchief you are indeed a sneaky one.

 

[Dave Dillehay]

I'd like to diffuse this difference between friends.

I don't believe that any of us, Liquid blue, Living Underwater, Christi, or others practice unsafe UW procedures. Such things should not last in the competitive Cozumel environment.

I think the problem cropped up when the concept of the consideration to continue a dive with a diver either out of air or very low on air by air sharing. That would be beyond stupid and never be considered safe for any of us. On the other hand, practiced with lots of air in everyone's tanks, it does make for long safe dives for groups that can stay together with the Instructor, for a VERY safe ascent.

Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

 

[Christi]

I'd like to diffuse this difference between friends.

I don't believe that any of us, Liquid blue, Living Underwater, Christi, or others practice unsafe UW procedures. Such things should not last in the competitive Cozumel environment.

I think the problem cropped up when the concept of the consideration to continue a dive with a diver either out of air or very low on air by air sharing. That would be beyond stupid and never be considered safe for any of us. On the other hand, practiced with lots of air in everyone's tanks, it does make for long safe dives for groups that can stay together with the Instructor, for a VERY safe ascent.

Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

Exactly Dave We are on the same page - I just wasn't so precise. Too much end of the month paper work today - hahah!