Dive masks with purge valves

[MXGratefulDiver]

It is really not that hard to understand. Everyone exhales, and for most that means bubbles.

Exhalation from the reg exhaust drifts bubbles into some photographers way.

The old ScubaPro Trivent routed bubbles from the purge on the mask out to the side where there was no easy way for the bubbles to drift into the field of view.

So the photographers would when setting up certain shots consciously breath out the nose and out the side vents, so bubbles would not be in their field of view.

Many photographers go with dual hose regs or rebreathers for similar reasons. The ScubaPro Trivent just allowed people another way to keep bubbles out of the way without having to swap out their regs.

I really don't see the problem here. I've taken just a few pictures in my day ... and exhaust bubbles just aren't that much of a concern. Experienced photographers don't even think about it. Besides ... particularly for those close-in shots, we tend to not breathe while framing the shot because it helps stabilize our buoyancy.

This is not something that I or anyone else I know who's into underwater photography has ever used as a criteria for mask selection. Seems like one of those things that looks good in conversation, but in practice proves to be pretty inconsequential ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[beanojones]

Given that the mask has not been recently part of ScubaPro's catalog, it's likely not an option you could have considered.

But given there are lots of photographers who do choose double hose regs, and rebreathers for their lack of exhaust bubbles, what you choose to do is just that, and nothing more.

 

[elmer fudd]

I really don't see the problem here. I've taken just a few pictures in my day ... and exhaust bubbles just aren't that much of a concern. Experienced photographers don't even think about it. Besides ... particularly for those close-in shots, we tend to not breathe while framing the shot because it helps stabilize our buoyancy.

This is not something that I or anyone else I know who's into underwater photography has ever used as a criteria for mask selection. Seems like one of those things that looks good in conversation, but in practice proves to be pretty inconsequential ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm not into photography, but I have done many dives using DH regs. I don't think it has anything to do with exhaust bubbles going across the mask, but the fish DO let you get considerably closer when your bubbles are coming out behind you and I can definitely see where that would be good for a photographer.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm not into photography, but I have done many dives using DH regs. I don't think it has anything to do with exhaust bubbles going across the mask, but the fish DO let you get considerably closer when your bubbles are coming out behind you and I can definitely see where that would be good for a photographer.

Fish let you get close when you're quiet in the water and don't make them feel threatened. I often get within a couple inches of my subjects.

But that's got little to do with the topic of this thread ... which is diving masks with purge valves. With or without them, you're going to get bubbles either way.

People can find all sorts of rationalizations for the equipment they want to buy. Some of it makes practical sense ... most boils down to personal preference. There's no need to create rationalizations. If you like the convenience, go for it. But that's really all you're buying with a purge mask.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[elmer fudd]

I notice the difference most with wary fish like big perch. Suddenly you realize, hey, I'm within 3 feet of these things and they usually hang out 6 or 7 feet away.

Sculpin, lingcod, cabezon, flounder and the like let you get right up next to them regardless of where your bubbles come from. I remember posing for a picture with a big cabezon at Edmunds. My buddy kept signalling for me to get closer to it. I was already just inches away and wasn't too keen on getting bumped or bitten.

It makes me wonder sometimes what critters are lurking outside of our sight, avoiding us just because of the noise we make, and really makes SCCR's sound appealing.

 

[Tortuga68]

So to summarise: if you are a male photographer, who doesn't use DH reg/rebreather, with a bushy lady-magnet mo' that you don't want to ruin with grease, who needs to keep two hands on your camera, do lots of macro shots, are prepared to accept the risks of purge valve failure, like high volume masks, don't like shaving & always exhale through your nose, then a purge mask with side vents which is no longer made could just be the right choice for you, if you can find one

This guys name is Fred BTW

 

[beanojones]

boils down to personal preference. There's no need to create rationalizations.

But there are plenty of reasons to explain why people make the choices they do. If you want to attach your disapproval to peoples choices by calling them rationalizations, instead of reasons, they that too is your choice to disrespect others judgment.

But like most judgments, its saying more about the judger than the judgee.

---------- Post added July 2nd, 2013 at 05:27 PM ----------

if you are are prepared to accept the risks of purge valve failure

We are so prepared to accept the risks of purge valve failure that in the history of scuba diving no one has ever done a scuba dive without taking that risk. And we even add the additional failure point of the second stage diaphragm as well.

So saying someone is must prepare to accept the risks of purge valve failure to use a purge mask(doom, doom doo---m) is pretty ridiculous. And that's ignoring the fact that a mask purge valve failure, were it to actually happen, is not part of the breathing loop so it is ridiculously easy to deal with in the same way any mask leak is. The purge valve failure in a regulator can make using the reg next to impossible, and the diaphragm failure makes it basically completely impossible. I have had both these failures, and they have not made me stop using gear with flimsy pieces of rubber because without those flimsy pieces of rubber (like purge valves and diaphragms), scuba diving is impossible. Surface supplied in a helmet? Possible without purge valves, diaphragms, and other flimsy pieces of rubber. Scuba? Not possible.

As far as talking about old masks, well the guy who asked the question was asking specifically about the difference between now and 13 years ago, so talking about what was common 13 years ago kind of makes sense right? The TriVent was a huge seller.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

But there are plenty of reasons to explain why people make the choices they do. If you want to attach your disapproval to peoples choices by calling them rationalizations, instead of reasons, they that too is your choice to disrespect others judgment.

But like most judgments, its saying more about the judger than the judgee.

... the reason is personal preference ... the rationalization is all this business about bubbles and photography

We are so prepared to accept the risks of purge valve failure that in the history of scuba diving no one has ever done a scuba dive without taking that risk. And we even add the additional failure point of the second stage diaphragm as well.

So saying someone is must prepare to accept the risks of purge valve failure to use a purge mask(doom, doom doo---m) is pretty ridiculous. And that's ignoring the fact that a mask purge valve failure, were it to actually happen, is not part of the breathing loop so it is ridiculously easy to deal with in the same way any mask leak is. The purge valve failure in a regulator can make using the reg next to impossible, and the diaphragm failure makes it basically completely impossible. I have had both these failures, and they have not made me stop using gear with flimsy pieces of rubber because without those flimsy pieces of rubber (like purge valves and diaphragms), scuba diving is impossible. Surface supplied in a helmet? Possible without purge valves, diaphragms, and other flimsy pieces of rubber. Scuba? Not possible.

Diaphragm failures are not uncommon. On second stages, they cause your regulator to breathe wet. On drysuits, they create a wet spot on your left arm. On masks, they create a continuous leak. None of those failures are life threatening ... and nobody except you has suggested that they are. What they are is an annoyance ... and a potential stressor if the diver is unprepared to deal with it. If you're prepared to deal with it, and believe the trade-off is worth the convenience, then that's your preference (there's that word again). Your strawman argument that it has anything to do with "doom" is what's ridiculous ... but you're the only one bringing that argument into the conversation.

A diaphragm failure on a regulator that ... as you claim ... makes it impossible to breathe is extremely uncommon ... the purge valve would have to fall completely out for that to happen. What's way more common is for something to get stuck up under the diaphragm, which allows a bit of water into the breathing chamber. It's entirely possible to breathe off that. Uncomfortable, perhaps ... but an experienced diver, or a calm diver of any experience level who understands what's going on, can deal with it without too much difficulty.

These failures happen. It serves no one to dismiss them, or to overstate them ... they are a part of diving.

This discussion's descending into the realm of silly. If you want to use a purge mask, use one. There's valid reasons why they're not as popular as they once were. It has nothing to do with bubbles, photography, or any of that other nonsense you brought up. It has everything to do with the fact that the development of low-volume masks made a purge valve far less convenient than it used to be ... and therefore the trade-offs inherent in a purge mask made less sense to most folks than it used to.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Hatul]

I use one of the XS Scuba masks with a purge valve. The valve does make clearing a little easier and never had a failure. I see a more likely failure being loss of mask, and for this I use a short bungee clipped to a D ring as a leash.

 

[Steve_C]

Fish let you get close when you're quiet in the water and don't make them feel threatened. I often get within a couple inches of my subjects.

But that's got little to do with the topic of this thread ... which is diving masks with purge valves. With or without them, you're going to get bubbles either way.

People can find all sorts of rationalizations for the equipment they want to buy. Some of it makes practical sense ... most boils down to personal preference. There's no need to create rationalizations. If you like the convenience, go for it. But that's really all you're buying with a purge mask.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Nice photo