dive lights????

[mbsub]

@ Windtech

If you are interested to a high quality focussable LED system, please contact Brian from IndianValleyScuba in Harleysville, PA.
Brian@indianvalleyscuba.com
IVS is our distributor for US and Canada and they can show you all the parts and components of our unique LED light system.

Michael

 

[a22shady]

I saw the video before, Like I said the light looks great just from point of what I have used and seen and Others still are ahead. But your light from stat's video and everything seem to be right there is not ahead. Only issue I have with the video is even though one might look brighter/better video sometimes lie's and distorts things, The angles/color etc can be changed by the camera itself trying to adjust

 

[D_B]

That's a nice comparison video, and was so up until the diver adjusts the HID's beam spread ... it's now wider than it was, wider than the LED, and is no longer a direct comparison (you can see the HID's beam converge and the spread out a lot more after that adjustment)

Never the less, that is impressive for an LED to even be tested to a 21w HID lamp and it does look the same/similar output
... that it's not adjustable would make it slightly less uasable, for example, in clear water where you could widen the beam

I have seen many suggestions on going straight to at least a 21 watts light (light putput) because that's what you will want/get eventually

 

[TSandM]

I've been fortunate enough to be in the water (although we were just standing in it) with a fellow who had one of the MBSUB LED lights. Shining both of our lights (mine's a 21W Salvo) into the water we were standing in, the two lights appeared quite comparable in brightness and focus. I wouldn't be able to say they were truly comparable until we actually DOVE with both of them, though.

I own four Salvo 21W lights. I have them because I like the brightness and sharply focused beam for communication in turbid water, and because my experience with Salvo (and now Light Monkey) customer service has been so uniformly excellent that it would take quite a bit to get me to change loyalties.

As far as the OP's original question . . . as everybody has said, it depends on the diving you want to do. But if you are thinking of technical diving, or wreck penetration, you want power, burn time AND reliability. Anything hand-held or mounted on the back of the hand will likely be limited in power, and in addition, anything hand-held will make one hand useless for other functions, like running line. This is one of the reasons that technical and cave divers almost all use some type of canister with a lighthead on a Goodman handle.

If budget is an issue and you want to start somewhere, a good backup-type light (eg. Halcyon Scout, Photon Torpedo, or even the Dorcy Penetrators) in a light sock (a Goodman handle analog) is a good place to begin.

 

[Graggs]

I'm a lighting designer and I can tell you the same claims are made in our industry and we test and measure light with proper instruments.
The fact remains, HID and Halogen produce a beam of LIGHT....at the moment LED doesn't. In clear air LED's can't match a reflector lamp, so I can't see how they can manage it in murky water.
LED gives a light similar to fluorescent and it's difficult to manage.
I have yet to come across a 'commercial' LED which out performs HID or Tungsten.
Test bench LED's are certainly producing interesting figures, but they are not commercially available.
We are starting to see some interesting LED light engines (engineered LED and heatsink and light management unit, all manufactured together) but it's early days and I'm sure it'll take a while for these to be adopted in dive lamps.
If it's any consolation, the professional lighting industry are still arguing about how to measure LED light output so that it can be 'compared' to traditional light sources.
From my professional and my diving experience, I don't see how present LED technology can be directly compared to HID...that's not to say they aren't good products - they are, they have other advantages that may be more important to you...but LED people, please don't mislead the public with non scientific tests - a video test proves nothing...it's just grossly misleading.

 

[Nikki McAllen]

Not mentioned is a new breakout company Big Blue. They specialize in high end LED dive lights and that's all they do. Some very impressive units, especially their video lights

I'm a marine electrician and I own several of these. Very high quality. VERY intense LED sets. My favorite after owning a box load of others. I would not recommend HID lights at all. Too costly in re bulb life mostly. Use too much juice as well.

One poster mentioned you need at least two lights for Tec and that's true. I would hold off on a canister light until you learn more, Big Blue (and others) have some very impressive hand-helds good enough to get you started. Choosing a 'focusing light' for camera strobe makes a nice dual/triple use backup.

I would disagree on one point : a cheap light rarely performs as well as an expensive one. True the light comes out the front as powerful but o-ring seals / drop survival / battery terminals can all be major issues in the life of your investment.

In my experience you typically get what you pay for in a dive light.

 

[Nikki McAllen]

The fact remains, HID and Halogen produce a beam of LIGHT....at the moment LED doesn't.

Well that's kinda silly ! (or at least unclear). Stare into a 30watt led pack and try to see the keyboard well enough to type those words again ! :blinking:

Good manufacturers have intense led's with heat sink protection. As wel, the 6500k color really pierces water since it's 'blue-er' then a warmer HID.

We all know water absorbs red light first. Photographers especially are well aware of this physics problem of light having to travel out to the target then back to the eye (or lens) to create an image. Stands to reason a 'redder' light would have more trouble doing that back and forth.

Cool blue lights really pierce on the way out, the returning intensity somewhat dependent on the target color.

 

[D_B]

And , as was pointed out in another thread, a backup light, has/can have completely different requirements than a primary light
Burn time and absolute reliability in a back up light are the important traits ... brightness isn't high on the list

 

[lucca brassi]

I own four Salvo 21W lights. I have them because I like the brightness and sharply focused beam for communication in turbid water

when we talk about HID we normaly take mostly halcyon , salvo 18 - 21W in last time 24W and other clones ( agir , diverite , yellow diving )

these lamps are all TEST TUBE DESIGN which is great ... but have some weaknesses in murky water.

Parabola have efficiency if is good about 98% and best TIR optics arround 87% . But if TEST TUBE lamp is in murky water ray/optical path is interrupted to meet parabola ( and there we have double path - from source to mirror and from mirror forward ) there effciency of beam significaly drops! And there HID test tube light - I think LOSE; at same power and eve slightly more power on HID against LED.


( in irony of understanding working ,technical divers right in case murky water have them for superior over others. BTW in GUE literature wrote corect about that problem but techs that fact just ''deliberately ignore'' )

Something complete different is to have HID - HID bulb and parabola ''on dry'' behind front glass , ( for more easy imagination like
METALSUB HID 126 -200 ) these lamps are much more powerfull than
LED today at sme power or even slightly lower power for HID (from position optical and electronic view - and of course divers view)

and that why should be compared closed HID with led cluster because both have same starting point. (pure HID-LED comparison)

 

[Graggs]

Well that's kinda silly ! (or at least unclear). Stare into a 30watt led pack and try to see the keyboard well enough to type those words again ! :blinking:

Nikki, it's not kinda silly at all...and you have made a very valid point, LED's are brilliant (quite literally) if you look into them, so for traffic lights and applications where you look directly at the light source, they are fantastic.

Good manufacturers have intense led's with heat sink protection

Not always, the LED manufacturer will quote 100,000 hours to mean lamp failure, if you ever see this or even half of it beware! These are lab figures and are almost impossible to achieve in real life without serious heat management and circuitry to control power delivered to the LED etc.

The reason there are so many LED companies cropping up, is because the technology is easier to handle and there's money to be made in the frenzy! The more responsible guys will be developing proper torches with heat management built in - this is where you point about getting what you pay for is sooooo true!

We all know water absorbs red light first

Yep, I'm one of those underwater photographers and this is true, but HID (commercially) can go way beyond 6500°K, but I think most people who know the difference prefer a more natural colour temperature.
And your point only holds true, if the light in question can be formed into a beam of light. Probably too detailed, but Xicato are working on light engines, but these still need sophisticated reflectors...there are a few torch manufacturers going down this route, but the bulk of the cheaper touches use crude LEDs and lens.


To answer the original questions....I'm not sure it makes sense to haemorrhage money on a tech torch at this stage....buy a good led torch and then use this as a secondary when you get to the stage of buying and needing a tech torch - by then things could be different!

At the moment, we are close to a cross over point...but keep it real and use proper data.