Dive Flag use on Maui

[adjuster-jd]

How often do folks use a dive flag when shore diving on Maui? I remember being on a boat last year and seeing some bubbles out a considerable distance from shore but no flag.
Since this year I will actually have some buddies to shore dive with, I'd like some advice on use of a flag.
TIA

 

[Charlie99]

Like in many areas, the dive flag is required by law, but many divers don't use them. I only use a flag when diving Kamaole III, just north of the boat ramp, because there really is a need there.

Professional guides, like Shaka Divers will use them routinely, and you will typically see floats and flags in use at popular dive sites, and particularly at popular training/certification sites like Ulua and Makena Landing.

Many that do use them flags, though, will simply enter the water, go out to 15 or 20' depth and tie off the flag. Then they go off and do their dives, wandering quite far from the flag, and just pick it up as they come back into shore.

I heard from a reliable source, who heard from his brother, about a friend of his 3rd cousin's wife who got a $50 ticket a couple years ago from DLNR (Dept. of Land and Natural Resources -- i.e. Game Wardens) for not having a flag at Makena.


Charlie Allen

p.s. If anybody wants to borrow one between now and mid-March, PM me. I have both a legal one with full-size flag, and a really nice easily towable inflatable torpedo float with 8" flag that is intended for freedivers.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

The following text is copied from the Hawaii DLNR rules page. The easy translation is; a minimum 12" by 12" dive flag must be displayed on the surface when shore diving, there is no underwater distance restriction from the flag but except in emergency you are prohibited from surfacing more than 100 ft from the flag, except in emergencies diving in boat navigation channels is prohibited, it is a violation to leave your flag in the water when you are not diving. Fines have been handed out to repeat and blatent violators.

(a) A "diver's flag" as defined by rule and measuring not less than twelve inches by twelve inches shall be required to be displayed on the surface of the water by any person or group of persons engaged in free diving or SCUBA diving.

(b) Notwithstanding subsection (a), a diver's flag measuring not less than twelve inches by twelve inches, shall be displayed on the highest point of the main structure of a non-motorized vessel that is sixteen feet or less in length overall in order to provide unobstructed view of the diver's flag from all directions when diving from the vessel.

(c) Notwithstanding subsection (a), in addition to the "Alpha flag" required by the United States Coast Guard, i.e., a blue flag with a white horizontal strip running from the upper left side to the lower left side, a diver's flag measuring not less than twenty inches by twenty-four inches, shall be displayed on the highest point of the main structure of any motorized or non-motorized vessel that is greater than sixteen feet in length overall in order to provide unobstructed view of the diver's flag from all directions when diving from the vessel.

(d) No person shall engage in free diving or SCUBA diving, or display a diver's flag, in a manner that shall unreasonably or unnecessarily interfere with vessels or with free and proper navigation of the waterways of the State.

(e) Except in cases of emergencies, free diving, swimming, or SCUBA diving within navigation channels shall be prohibited.

(f) All vessels shall be prohibited from approaching within one hundred feet of a displayed diver's flag or within fifty feet of a displayed diver's flag on navigable streams, except within marked navigation channels. Vessels approaching a displayed diver's flag to conduct SCUBA, snorkeling, or free diving activities within the one hundred foot or fifty foot restricted area shall be allowed to do so provided that the vessel approaches at a speed of slow-no-wake.

(g) Vessels navigating through marked navigation channels are exempt from the distance restriction described in subsection (f) but shall proceed at a speed of slow-no-wake through the navigation channel when a diver's flag is displayed adjacent to the navigation channel.

(h) The diver's flag shall be displayed only when free diving or SCUBA diving is in progress, and its display in a water area when no diving is in progress in that area shall constitute a violation of these rules.

(i) There shall be no subsurface distance restrictions from a dive flag, however, except in cases of emergencies, free divers or SCUBA divers shall be prohibited from surfacing more than one hundred feet away from the diver's flag in the ocean waters of the State and fifty feet in navigable streams.

(j) Authorized representatives of the department and life saving personnel are exempt from the distance restrictions of subsection (f) when performing functions related to their duties.

(k) Anyone violating any provision of this section shall be subject to fines and penalties as provided in sections 200-14, 200-14.5, and 200-25, HRS. [Eff 2/24/94 am July 5, 2003] (Auth: HRS §§200-2, 200-3, 200-4, 200-10, 200-14, 200-14.5, 200-24, 200-25) (Imp: HRS §§200-2, 200-3, 200-4, 200-10, 200-14, 200-14.5, 200-24, 200-25)

 

[KrisB]

I have heard that at some sites, the DLNR can be more "goon-like". Makena Landing seems to be more known for having more strict (and rude) enforcement.

I have heard a first-hand account of how an instructor at Makena Landing, with a class, was at depth, observed a boat pass overhead several times before stopping. A person slipped into the water, free dove down, flashed a badge. The instructor shrugged and was like "so..." -- then the guy flashed him the "one-finger shaka" and returned to the surface.

When the instructor was done with his class, he surfaced near his flag and went in to shore, where he was promptly reamed out by said DLNR goon (erm... "enforcement officer") for not diving with a flag.

If you are approached, be nice, play dumb, and they'll hopefully just give you a warning. I carry a printed out copy of the same thing that halemano posted just in case there's any question about my following the rules. (Hawaiian enforcement officers are known for enforcing what they *think* is the law, not what really is).

That said, if you're diving at, say Ulua, on a normal morning, you could consider yourself part of another "group of divers" diving, and just make sure you surface within 100' of a flag, and you should be able to avoid any question.

 

[Wildcard]

I had one when I went down, must have been stolen, again. It's nothing more than way to generate revenue and they do enforce it. if they do write a ticket, make them take a stolen flag report. Sorry for being so flipant but it's total BS. Just like the click it or ticket surges. If they were realy concerned with safety why are they not worried about 8 kids in the bed of an open pickup? it's only about the money.

 

[KrisB]

Wildcard's right... there actually has been rashes of stolen flag issues (from the water and from the back of pickup trucks)... so you could use that excuse plausibly.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

I had my dive flag stolen on my last visit and did not use one the rest of my trip. But as a tourist the stupid routine works great

 

[Shaka Doug]

Why wouldn't you want to carry a flag in the first place? Don't you all see the benefits of having a flag, besides being in compliance with "the Law"? I dive with my flag for some very basic reasons. It can be a hassle sometimes, but it's ultimately worth it. Have you ever seen what can happen to a diver who has been hit by a boat propeller? I have...two different times. Both guys died in the water and it wasn't pretty. Neither of them had a dive flag anywhere near them. It wasn't very cool for the unsuspecting boat operators either.

What about buddy separation? It is so much easier to get a group back together (and keep them together) if you have your flag with you.

What about required equipment guidelines? All of the Certification Agencys ( to my knowledge) expect professional divers (Instructors and DM's) to have a flag with them on a dive. Why do you think they want this??

A strange thing happens when someone gets hurt at something. Rules may be ingored for a long time, until someone gets hurt. Then, everyone gets in an uproar and enforcement begins. What do you think will happen the first time someone gets hit by a boat at, say, Ulua Beach? I have had boats go right over my divers several times while I was towing my flag on dives there. Two of these boats were local dive operators!!!!!

I would much rather have the peace of mind that the flag affords me than have to worry about a bunch of preventable issues.

Does anyone remember the guy who was eaten by a shark last February here in Makena? I know he was free diving, but it's required to have a flag for that too. If he had brought a flag with him, I think it would have been a lot easier to find his remains. Maybe he would have had a different experience in the first place. It took over 15 hours to find the guys body parts! Noone knew where to begin the search. It was a horrible and distressing morning for a lot of people.

BTW, the flag needs to be at least 12" by 12" to be legal here.

I know my guests appreciate the extra effort I make to protect them and keep them safe and having an enjoyable dive. It's worth every bit of hassle I go through towing the thing. No one is gonna get hurt on my watch!

 

[kidspot]

gotta relate a recent "flag" story ...

Charlie99 and I hit Polo beach a couple weeks back and had a wonderful dive. About halfway through the dive I looked behind me and there was my flag ... dragging in the sand at the bottom - lol. I only have about 40 ft. of line on the spool attached to my flag, and we were in over 50fsw ... the compression was too great on the float, so it lost bouyancy and "decided" to join us on the dive. I rolled the line back onto the spool and carried it the rest of the way till we got back in shallower water where it could get bouyant again.

Is there anything in those rules that say the flag has to remain at the surface during a dive?

Aloha, Tim

P.S. Doug - glad you chimed in, you have a great policy about flags and I'm always glad for the reminder ...

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

All of the Certification Agencys ( to my knowledge) expect professional divers (Instructors and DM's) to have a flag with them on a dive. Why do you think they want this??

Because lawyers scare them a lot???