Dive Flag Towing

[NJDiverMark]

If this is not in the correct forum please feel free to move. It is safery related.

Okay so be here lately within the past month a lot of divers have been getting harassed by a cop or marine police or something of that nature for not towing their dive flags all while shore diving. From what I've heard 1 even got a summons last week. The areas where we do most of our shore diving are inlets and rivers more inland coming from the inlet. Both areas have heavy current and surge. So what many of us do is attach a 5 pound weight to our dive flag line holder and plant it on the bottom. We never go more than 50 - 75 feet from the flag. And we stay very close to the rocks in the inlet and never venture out into the shipping channel.

In the rules and regulations it doesn't say anything about towing a dive flag. The only thing it says is that one must be displayed and no diver shall surface more than 25 feet away from the flag.

I have had an incident where I became in tangled in my dive flag rope do to surge and current and have had to cut my self free. In my opinion towing a dive flag is a safety hazard. It takes the use out of one of your hands. Especially if hunting, which alot of us do. As long as you are within a reasonable distance from your flag and surface no more than 25 feet away like the rules say I don't see why this is an issue to be harassed by the authorities about.

Opinions?

 

[ekremer]

I decided to do a quick search on the topic, and I have no clue why I am interested, but it appears the New Jersey law (I assume we are talking NJ here since that is your location in your profile) is
New Jersey Administrative Code/NEW JERSEY ADMINISTRATIVE CODE/TITLE 13 LAW AND PUBLIC SAFETY/CHAPTER 82 BOATING REGULATIONS/SUBCHAPTER 3 OPERATIONAL REGULATIONS/§ 13:82-3.17 Diving and swimming
It is a lot more then "surface within 25 feet" though that does exist.

What is interesting is 2. Any person while diving shall mark his or her position with a buoyed flag:
Sounds like you should be towing it to me


The full text that I found is from Legal Resources

§ 13:82-3.17 Diving and swimming





(a) General provisions with respect to diving and swimming are as follows:




1. Underwater diving with or without an underwater apparatus is permitted in all navigable waters in New Jersey unless otherwise prohibited in this section;




2. Any person while diving shall mark his or her position with a buoyed flag:




i. Such flag shall be displayed so that it is visible all around the horizon from a buoy, float, boat or other floating object; and




ii. Such flag shall be a minimum of 14 inches by 16 inches, shall be rigid to enhance visibility and shall be a red background with a white diagonal stripe running from one corner to the other;




3. No person shall operate a vessel within 50 feet of the buoyed flag;




4. No person shall display a flag at times other than when diving is in progress;




5. No person shall swim or dive in a narrow, confined or improved channel or in a marked fairway, under a bridge, or impede, obstruct or interfere with passage of watercraft therein; and




6. No diver shall surface more than 25 feet from the buoyed flag except in an emergency.




(b) Provisions for Manasquan Inlet are as follows:




1. Underwater diving shall be permitted in the Manasquan Inlet only within 50 feet from the stone jetties and bulkheads; and




2. Underwater diving is permitted only in the area east of an imaginary line drawn from Ocean Avenue, Point Pleasant Beach, extended to a point across the inlet at First Avenue, Manasquan.




(c) Provisions for Barnegat Inlet are as follows:




1. Except as provided in this subsection, no person or persons shall, while engaged in gogglefishing, spearfishing or skin diving, enter into any navigable channel or approach within 200 feet of any boat anchored or underway within the water adjacent to the land areas of the Borough of Barnegat Light;




2. No person shall dive in any of the waters of the Barnegat Inlet channel;




3. Skin and Scuba diving is permitted from the north and south jetties, but no person shall dive further than 25 feet from the rock jetty or bulkhead within the inlet;




4. No person shall dive within Barnegat Inlet between 8:00 A.M. and 5:00 P.M. on Saturdays and Sundays from June 1 to September 30;




5. A diver shall mark his or her position with a float and skin diver‘s flag as provided in (a) above;




6. Only “buddy diving” shall be permitted in the Barnegat Inlet;




7. Recreational diving is prohibited within 100 feet of the north monument; and




8. Recreational diving is prohibited within the inlet when the current is at flood.




(d) Provisions for Shark River Inlet are as follows:




1. Underwater diving is permitted in the Shark River Inlet in that area which lies east of a line extending from the northwest end of A Street in Belmar to the southeast end of First Avenue in Avon;




2. Divers shall stay within 25 feet of the jetties and bulkheads in the area described;




3. A diver shall mark his or her position with a float and skin diver‘s flag as provided in (a) above;




4. No diver shall surface more than 15 feet from the buoyed flag except in an emergency; and




5. No underwater diving shall be permitted in Shark River Inlet between the hours of 8:00 A.M. and 5:30 P.M. during the period each year commencing May 1 terminating October 1.

 

[NJDiverMark]

Yea its for nj. Idk its not to clear to me. I see what your saying but idk. If your towing it there's no reason to surface 25feet away anyways. Maybe as long as your within 25 feet?

It also seems like a safety hazard to me (entanglement issue).

 

[trailblazer1229]

I asked some locals about dive flags here in Hawaii. You are supposed to tow a flag and buoy or surface near it. The problem is that people have been stealing them while the buoy and flag are anchored on the bottom. Boats swing by,
investigate the buoy and say, "Wow, nice buoy and nice flag. I could use one of those." They pull it up and off they go.

I have only seen free diver/skin divers tow a float and that is usually to hang their fish from.

Someone posed the question, how can an officer fine you if your flag and buoy were stolen while you were under the surface? Good question.


So

 

[irishsquid]

Just return back to the flag line underwater before you surface when done diving. Have them PROVE you weren't towing. IJS

 

[Dive-aholic]

Yea its for nj. Idk its not to clear to me. I see what your saying but idk. If your towing it there's no reason to surface 25feet away anyways. Maybe as long as your within 25 feet?

It also seems like a safety hazard to me (entanglement issue).

Just because you're towing it doesn't mean you will surface right under it. There is also the expectation from authorities that you are diving with a buddy and the buddy is not tethered to the dive flag.

 

[NJDiverMark]

My co worker/ dive buddy almost got a summons 2 weeks ago when a marine cop followed his bubbles in his boat for his whole dive. Then waited for him to surface so he could interrogate him on why he was not towing his flag. He was no more than 50 ft away from his flag, and he was diving under a bridge in a non boating area. luckily he didnt receive a ticket.

I dont see an issue as long as you stay within 25-30ft from the flag.

I do see a big issue with safety while towing a flag though. Ijs.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I asked some locals about dive flags here in Hawaii. You are supposed to tow a flag and buoy or surface near it. The problem is that people have been stealing them while the buoy and flag are anchored on the bottom. Boats swing by,
investigate the buoy and say, "Wow, nice buoy and nice flag. I could use one of those." They pull it up and off they go.

You just keep on asking locals on Oahu how they do things; then look up the facts.

I think the vast majority of Hawaii's "reportedly stolen flags" were probably badly attached to the bottom, got loose and drifted away. Just like the NJ diver, but exactly opposite, you are wrong about the flag law where you dive.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The answer is that New Jersey ... like a lot of states ... is in a budget crisis. Since they can't raise taxes, they've decided to raise as much cash as possible through "law enforcement" ... meaning put the burden on essentially the honest people to pony up more money in fines for whatever "infractions" they can stick you with.

Law enforcement used to be a honorable profession ... now they're just pimps for the politicians. And since you're a scuba diver, they figure you've got money that the state can take away from you.

Hence, the enforcement of an essentially stupid law. It's not a safety issue at all ... my experience with towing a dive flag is that it's generally going to make your dive less safe, not more so ... particularly if there are any jet skiers in the vicinity ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[tridacna]

The answer is that New Jersey ... like a lot of states ... is in a budget crisis. Since they can't raise taxes, they've decided to raise as much cash as possible through "law enforcement" ... meaning put the burden on essentially the honest people to pony up more money in fines for whatever "infractions" they can stick you with.

Law enforcement used to be a honorable profession ... now they're just pimps for the politicians. And since you're a scuba diver, they figure you've got money that the state can take away from you.

Hence, the enforcement of an essentially stupid law. It's not a safety issue at all ... my experience with towing a dive flag is that it's generally going to make your dive less safe, not more so ... particularly if there are any jet skiers in the vicinity ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, the $200 in annual fines that they collect from wayward divers will not affect NJ revenues. I'm pretty sure that boater's complaints may play more of a role in this regard than Christie balancing our budget.