Dive Flag Requirements - South Maui

[howard4113]

I've done hundreds of dives on Maui (MANY at Ulua). During a typical day, there are a half dozen dive flags anchored in the sand near and along the south side of the inner reef. I don't recall anyone ever towing a flag on the second reef there. This includes instructors from all the major dive shops. It may not be legal (subject to interpretation), or make any sense; but it certainly is the standard. Most folks interpret the law as Kris has done. So you guys can argue all you want, but that's the way things are. The only time I tow a flag is at Olowalu, and that's only out to the end of the sand channel so I can mark it for an easy return.
You don't tow a flag on a boat dive - you use the flag on the boat to alert others to the presence of divers in the water. No different from a shore dive. Carry a SMB for emergencies.
Doug, thanks for sharing your sobering experiences. Makes us all more aware of what can and does happen.

Mark

 

[Shaka Doug]

Here's my $0.02 from a annual visitor perspective.
While I appreciate all the good reasons a diver would want to tow a flag I feel strongly that for the average visiting diver this could be a bad idea.
First most divers that do not regularly use a towed flag could have real issues with entanglement and these could create more of a safety issue than posed by a boat in an emergency situation that brings a diver up away from his moored flag. I do not think the average boater would be any more aware of a dive flag than a SMB and I think the average boater would avoid either, and the intoxicated / clueless boater would avoid neither so shooting a SMB in my opinion would offer similar protection to a towed flag (and my 6' SMB would present a more visible target than the flag shown in your picture).

My second issue is the damage than a poorly managed tow line presents to the reef. I saw a vacationing diver last year struggling to untangle her line from the coral at 5 caves, not a pretty sight once she was done mangling the reef, If I had to weigh her safety against the safety of the reef, well the reef gets my callous vote.

So when I'm there in September I'll be anchoring my flag and using good navigation and air management to return to it before I need to surface.

Hey Jim,


So as far as the poorly managed flag that the lady dealt with....why didn't you help her? Sounds like an isolated case and it may have been easily prevented if she went with a guide. Five Caves is not necessarily always a beginer dive. The conditions change there and it can easily become an advanced level dive with short notice. Maybe the woman you mentioned got in over her head. If I had been there I would have gladly assisted her.

For everyone else....I'll just leave it up to you...use the flag if you want, don't use it if you don't want to. Tie it off if you want (which sometimes is completely appropriate and prudent) or tow it. I can't keep you from speeding, driving drunk, or parking illegally so why should I think I can force you to follow dive flag laws?? You're free to make up your own mind and live with the consequences.

As for me, I tow mine. I will keep towing my flag and I feel good and proud about it. I know the dive flag law and I know the Standard Safe Diving Practices Statement of Understanding and I follow them both. So far this has served me well.

Hey, anyone want to have a going away party for one of our local dive guys who's moving back to Canada soon?? I won't say any names but we sure are gonna miss him!

 

[Thalassamania]

I fail to understand the heat here. If you leave a flag at your point of entry and surface back within 100 feet of the flag you are abiding by the law, minimizing risk, not hurting the coral and not having to put up with the inconvienience of towing a flag. The only problem is if your navigation skills aren't up to getting back to within 100 feet of the flag ... that's what an SMB is for. If you don't mind towing a flag ... great, do it, it does not get in anyone elses' way. If you lack the basic skills to tow a flag and not get tangled up ... you're better off with a guide anyway and Doug comes hightly recommened.

 

[howard4113]

Doug,

"Perhaps you need to get your meds adjusted" (or similar) is a common figure of speach - meaning calm down...you are overreacting and/or getting too excited. It is not intended as an insult and hardly implies that you actually use drugs. It is supposed to be humorous, not demeaning.

Mark

 

[KrisB]

Ok Kris, you state it is not illegal to park your flag. Above it states that displaying a flag when no diving by the flag owner is in progress is a violation of the law. Explaine your reasoning that it is not illegal to leave a flag in the water during your SI.

Actually, I rarely do that. Partly out of laziness (plans changing between dives and not wanting to go back and get it) and partly out of legality.

When I'm using my float, I make a point of tucking the flag into the float during the SI, then raising it again when I go back for the second dive.

I think you're misunderstanding "parking" the flag -- I just mean that I leave it in one spot during the dive. In most dive spots here, that means in 15-20' of water.

 

[Shaka Doug]

If you tie your flag and can dive around and find your way back to it without needing to surface more than 100 feet away then good for you. I have no problem with that. The risk comes when the divers are unable to do that and either surface expectedly or unexpectedly and they are not within that radius. If a boat is in the area it could be trouble. I just don't like sending false signals to the boaters when there is already apparently a lot of confusion about a dive flags purpose in the first place.

You guys have fun!

Mark, maybe you missed the post that was removed by the mod. The one that OSIDE JIM is making his comment on. It's too bad it was deleted....I had a lot of fun writing it!

 

[Shaka Doug]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your concern and excellent advice. You're right, meds may be just the ticket for my conditon. I think it's called SWOB (Salt Water On the Brain). 300 something dives a year for 24 years can do that to a guy. What do you take when you're feeling a little, you know, off center or a little wet behind the ears Jim? I'll take your suggestion under consideration and run it by my shrink but could we please stick to the thread topic and discussion here in the meantime?

You've been too busy bashing my mental health and my career that maybe you missed my question so I'll repeat it for you:

Did you help out the vacationing lady diver who was struggling with her tangled line, mangling the reef at Five Caves or did you just watch her continue to mangle the reef? Be honest....inquiring minds would like to know...I know what I would have done.

Can't wait to see you at ABC store! Hopefully I'll be promoted to mopping the floors and cleaning toilets by that time! Come say hi...I'll treat you to a swirly or something, they have great hot dogs too!! Thanks again for all the advice. I'll check it out, I heard they're actually hiring...that's one company that's doing just fine in our local economy. ABC's have put many Mom and Pop shops out of business in our state and they are thriving. (kind of like invasive weeds in your garden). Good for them! Do plenty of shopping there and maybe I'll even get a raise that month while so many others are getting laid off! (Got to pay them bills!)

By the way, sorry, I hate to disappoint all of you, there will be no fighting going on between me and Kris. We were just being nutty. He takes a jab at me and others once in a while. With our size differences it wouldn't be a fair fight and I respectfully publicly decline any offers to engage in such ludicris behavior with him. I'm reminded of a very short match between "James Baker vs. Butterbean"! I would certainly lose, plus he would likely out wit me too. I don't stand a chance. The only thing that would save me is I hope I can run faster and further...and I suppose I could always lock myself in my bus....

So how about that answer Jim? Personally I can't imagine just watching a fellow diver struggling underwater and not lending a hand...no matter who they are (yes, I'd even assist you!). Especially when poor little innocent corals are being mangled in the process!! The horror! I hope you're gonna say you saved the day and a bunch of corals too! (crossing my fingers Jim!!)

Did you guys know they're fining boat operators thousands and thousands of dollars for damage to reefs here on Maui now? The way you describe it, it sounds like she could be easily looking at several G's in fines if she was caught or observed. Each damaged individual coral colony gets you a $1,000 fine plus other fees. Just ask Maui Dive Shop or Makena Boat Partners. Wait till the DLNR start enforcing this on careless, reckless or (God forbid!) STRUGGLING SCUBA Divers! Imagine that!? Then where will we be? (However that should be good for my business and then I can quit working for the man / ABC and go back to living my American Dream! Yay!!)

Check out this recent Maui News article:Proposal would lower fine for coral reef damage - Mauinews.com | News, Sports, Jobs, Visitor's Information - The Maui News

Dive Flags serve a valuable purpose. Please use them properly and educate boaters/watersports enthusiasts when you can of their significance and intent. We will all be better off in the long run. I keep hearing the argument how dive flags attract boats and that boats use flags as slalom courses, etc. Well, if they are present where you dive I would rather have a boat come over by my flag so I could spot it rather than have a random boat fly by unexpectedly not knowing anything or anyone was below because I didn't have a flag. You could jerk the flag to make it bob or you could blast up some air bubbles if you had to alert the captain / driver of your presence. You don't think they would actually want to intentionally foul their prop in a flag line do you? If you have a boat investigating your flag then at least you know it's exact location. You could stay down or come up, depending on the circumstances, no?

Thank you and happy diving to you all! This sure has been fun. That's my .25 cents worth...

 

[Oside Jimc]

Did you help out the vacationing lady diver who was struggling with her tangled line, mangling the reef at Five Caves or did you just watch her continue to mangle the reef? Be honest....inquiring minds would like to know...I know what I would have done.
..

No, based on my air supply and the fact that the other diver was flailing and out weighed me by a good 100 pounds I left her alone, selfishly putting my personal safety first.

Good luck Doug.

 

[Ann Marie]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

I'd like to request that the personal insults and mean-spirited language stop. While I am aware that there are some undercurrents that happen around Maui, I'd like to see calm seas here on ScubaBoard. While I love a good debate, I find the violations of the Terms of Service tedious. Please feel free to argue your opinion but please do it in a respectful way. Please be aware that if the violations continue, members may be banned from this thread.

Mahalo,
Ann Marie

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