Dive flag mandatory?

[yukoneer]

I am from New York, however I am living in downtown Seattle for the summer. In New York, at some lakes -there is a mandatory rule to have a dive float which I bring down with me and tie them down at a place such as a pipeline.

needless to say, i hate floats - and when I am up on the surface, I can always pop open a signal tube if I sense a boat's coming. I'd rather carry a signal tube than lug around a dive float.


The question is, is a dive flag mandatory in Pudget Sound? or in Washington State? Washington Lake? other lakes around here?


thanks all, and I'm hoping to dive at edmonds underwater park this sunday.... (i dove there like a week ago without a flag float, but I thought I'd have to ask to be sure)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

According to what I've been told by Seattle Harbor Patrol, you are legally required to carry a dive flag when diving in Puget Sound.

I cannot vouch that it's true ... but if it is, it's the most ignored law in the state.

There are dive sites where I would NEVER carry a dive flag ... it's too handy a "target" for boaters.

As for Edmonds Underwater Park, the only people who put flags in the water there are dive instructors conducting Open Water classes ... and even some of those don't bother.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Uncle Pug]

I see classes fly the flag and we do off of our dive boat but other than that I wouldn't bother.

 

[David Thiesfeld]

Ok guys-



I’ve been researching this topic for another thread on the NWD2D forum
and have the skinny on this. The US Coast Guard’s interpretation of
federal law says that free swimming divers are not required to use/display
a dive flag.



The bottom line is King County and the city of Seattle both require the use of the red and white dive flag while scuba diving.


Federal Law: http://gps.gov/lnm/d8gm/2005SPECIALNOTICE.pdf

This is the US Coast Guards interpretation of federal maritime law-

ALPHA FLAG FOR RESTRICTED MANEUVERABILITY (Due to Diving Operations)

There has been some confusion over the status of the traditional sports divers’ flag because of a change to the

U.S. Inland Navigation Rules concerning the use of a one meter rigid replica of the International Code Flag

Alpha (a blue and white flag). The Alpha flag is to be flown on small vessels engaged in diving operations

whenever these vessels are restricted in their ability to maneuver if divers are attached to the vessel. But in

sports diving, where divers are usually free swimming, the Alpha flag does not have to be shown and the

Coast Guard encourages the continued use of the traditional sports diver flag. The distinction the Coast

Guard wants to make clear is: The Alpha flag is a navigational signal intended to protect the vessel from

collision. The sports diver flag is an unofficial signal that, through custom, has come to be used to protect the

diver in the water. It is the responsibility of the operator of a diving vessel to determine if his craft’s

movements are restricted. To be most effective, the sports diver flag should be exhibited on a float in the

water to mark the approximate location of the diver.


Washington state law:


King county ordinance: http://www.metrokc.gov/mkcc/Code/15-Title%2012.pdf


This is the King County rules-
[font=&quot]12.44.020 Definitions.[/font]
"Diver's flag" means a red flag five units of measurement on the hoist by six units of measurement
on the fly with a white stripe of one unit crossing the red diagonally (the flag to have a stiffener to make it
stand out from the pole or mast). This flag shall only pertain to skin and SCUBA (self-contained
underwater breathing apparatus) diving and shall supplement any nationally recognized diver's flag or
marking. Unit of measurement shall not be less than two inches.
"Skin diving" means any free swimming person and/or any person who uses an artificial or mechanical means to replace his air, including self-contained underwater breathing apparatus, snorkel tube equipment
and free diving gear, but shall not mean swimmers using patrolled public beaches designated as swimming areas.
[font=&quot]12.44.220 Skin-diving. [/font]Skin-diving shall be prohibited in the waters of King County: A. within three hundred feet of any ferry slip, public boat ramp, patrolled public beach designated as a swimming area, except pursuant to permit therefor issued by the sheriff and except for commercial diving, or B. in any other area unless the diver shall be accompanied by a watercraft or the area in which he is diving shall be marked by an adequately displayed diver's flag. (Res. 28232 § 19, 1964).

Seattle ordinance: http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=&s2=scuba&S3=&Sect4=AND&l=20&Sect1=IMAGE&Sect3=PLURON&Sect5=CODE1&d=CODE&p=1&u=%2F%7Epublic%2Fcode1.htm&r=3&Sect6=HITOFF&f=L3%3B1%3B16.28.020.HEAD.

Title 16 - HARBOR CODE Chapter 16.28 - Water Sports

​

SMC 16.28.020 Skin diving or scuba diving permit -- Areas required.

[font=&quot] A. It shall be unlawful to engage in skin diving or scuba diving in[/font]

[font=&quot]the following areas of the harbor without a written permit issued by[/font]

[font=&quot]the Chief of Police therefor:[/font]



[font=&quot] 1. To the east of a line from the northwest corner of Harbor Island[/font]

[font=&quot]to the westernmost corner of the U.S. Naval property located in Smith[/font]

[font=&quot]Cove, in the waters of the Lake Washington Ship Canal from the[/font]

[font=&quot]mid-channel buoy in Shilshole Bay to Webster Point light, including[/font]

[font=&quot]the waters of Lake Union and Portage Bay, all of the inner moorage[/font]

[font=&quot]area of the Port of Seattle moorings at Shilshole Bay Marina, Elliott[/font]

[font=&quot]Bay Marina or any established marina moorage area other than within[/font]

[font=&quot]the confines of the individual slip while working on a specific vessel[/font]

[font=&quot]and within three hundred (300) feet of the perimeter of the United[/font]

[font=&quot]States National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration facility at[/font]

[font=&quot]Sand Point; or[/font]



[font=&quot] 2. Within three hundred (300) feet of any ferry slip, public boat[/font]

[font=&quot]ramp, patrolled public beach designated as a swimming area. Provided,[/font]

[font=&quot]that it shall be lawful to engage in skin diving or scuba diving[/font]

[font=&quot]without a written permit between one hundred fifty (150) feet and[/font]

[font=&quot]three hundred (300) feet of the southeast corner of the Seacrest Park[/font]

[font=&quot]boat dock, as further described as follows: Starting at the[/font]

[font=&quot]intersection of the inner harbor line with the north margin of SW[/font]

[font=&quot]Georgia Street, and continuing easterly along said north margin one[/font]

[font=&quot]hundred ten (110) feet; thence south thirty-eight (38) feet to the[/font]

[font=&quot]true point of beginning, which is the southeast corner of the Seacrest[/font]

[font=&quot]boat dock; thence one hundred fifty (150) feet from a line south[/font]

[font=&quot]73°, 30', 0" east extending a distance of three hundred (300)[/font]

[font=&quot]feet.[/font]



[font=&quot] 3. Within one hundred and fifty (150) feet of any pier, dock, float[/font]

[font=&quot]or other shore installation at Seacrest Pier Marina.[/font]



[font=&quot] B. Anyone engaged in skin diving or scuba diving shall be accompanied[/font]

[font=&quot]by a vessel which shall display a diver's flag or the area in which[/font]

[font=&quot]the diving occurs shall be marked by an adequately displayed diver's[/font]

[font=&quot]flag. Use of the blue and white "Alpha" flag does not satisfy the[/font]

[font=&quot]requirement for a "diver's flag" as described in this title.[/font]

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

In Oregon the last time I put up a couple of dive flags to protect my class a jetskier used them for racing pylons.

Where's the gun when you need it?