Dive Boat Sinks in Pompano Beach

[johndiver999]

I dive in Palm Beach & Jupiter one weekend a month. I have no issues with the procedures I see used there every weekend. Whether or not they comply with the letter of the law is between them & the LEOs. I’ll leave law enforcement to the professionals. I’ve never been put at risk, not remotely.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but IF they decided to start issuing tickets for coming up under an smb and having no dive flag within 300 feet (either towed or on a dive vessel), then I assume the ticket would be issued to the specific divers who are involved. I'm not sure the law pertains to boat captains, directly.

I'm not under the impression that towing a flag will necessarily provide protection from being hit by a boat, but if you are drifting out there a quarter mile from the dive boat and feel completely safe from being run over by an inattentive boater simply because you have an smb over your head, you may one day be in for a rude awakening.

I pretty much try to have my head on a swivel when I ascend away from the boat, because I recognize just how vulnerable I am.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I pretty much try to have my head on a swivel when I ascend away from the boat, because I recognize just how vulnerable I am.

Why would you assume I don’t do the same? I do this whether I’m ascending under a flag or an SMB. I’m equally at risk in SEFL. Most boaters ignore flags and SMBs alike. Neither provides you a lick of protection.

You’ve also got to be ready to descend at any moment until you are actually boarding the boat.

 

[johndiver999]

Why would you assume I don’t do the same? I do this whether I’m ascending under a flag or an SMB. I’m equally at risk in SEFL. Most boaters ignore flags and SMBs alike. Neither provides you a lick of protection.

You’ve also got to be ready to descend at any moment until you are actually boarding the boat.

Perhaps I misinterpreted your statement about zero risk, not even a remote risk?

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Perhaps I misinterpreted your statement about zero risk, not even a remote risk?

You did. First, I never said zero risk. Second, I meant I’ve never had an incident that involved being put at risk in my hundreds of dives there. That applies to times I’ve come up under a flag as well as under an SMB. I’ve never had anything remotely risky occur. I could have worded it better.

Ascending under a flag and under an SMB in SEFL involves risk. I hold to my argument from my last post. Both a flag & SMB are equally risky. Boaters can & do ignore both. You need to assume that and take the precautions you and I both referenced. Coming up under a flag is no guarantee of safety nor is an SMB.

 

[uncfnp]

I don't mean to be argumentative, but IF they decided to start issuing tickets for coming up under an smb and having no dive flag within 300 feet (either towed or on a dive vessel), then I assume the ticket would be issued to the specific divers who are involved. I'm not sure the law pertains to boat captains, directly.

I'm not under the impression that towing a flag will necessarily provide protection from being hit by a boat, but if you are drifting out there a quarter mile from the dive boat and feel completely safe from being run over by an inattentive boater simply because you have an smb over your head, you may one day be in for a rude awakening.

I pretty much try to have my head on a swivel when I ascend away from the boat, because I recognize just how vulnerable I am.

If you google Florida and dive flags you will find several incidents of divers hit by boats while towing dive flags and discussions about the inadequacy of the 12 by 12 inch divers down flag requirement. So much so that about 5 years ago the law was amended to allow development of better options and now includes “divers down warning devices” and allows for divers to “make reasonable efforts to stay within 300 feet” of said device (device is to display the flag emblem).

Think about it. IRL which do you think is more visible, a 12 by 12 flag that may be edge on to an approaching boat or my 8 foot yellow buoy?

 

[elgringoperdido]

That is assuming some boats [ drivers, not Skippers] know what a dive flag is ,
I have surfaced beside my dive flag and found a boat beside it fishing, close enough for me to thump it.

Indeed. We were doing a "bottle dive" in the northern part of Chesapeake Bay, off the coast of Havre de Grace, MD last fall. Very shallow. Maybe 15 feet. I had a 100 CF bottle last me nearly three hours. Everyone had a floatie with a clear red-and-white flag, and still boats ran over us. One boat, with a huge garage-door-sized TRUMP 2020 KEEP AMERICA GREAT banner proudly flying from its stern actually bumped into a surfacing diver a couple of feet from his clearly-displayed diver down flag. He was a bit dazed but not injured.

I do quite a bit of cycling, and I think divers in the water near a marina are a bit like cyclists on a highway, even on those roads with clearly marked bicycle lanes and BIKE ROUTE signs. You are responsible for your own safety. Stop, look, and listen before sticking your head out. It's like that everywhere, by the way, not just in the US.

Bonne chance. Buena suerte. Viel Glück.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I’ve heard from trustworthy sources that the primary reason for the sinking was that the bilge pump wasn't working correctly. It wasn't fully operational. Also, the captain was a fairly new captain which would explain his failure to act promptly. He probably won't have his license much longer.

 

[johndiver999]

If you google Florida and dive flags you will find several incidents of divers hit by boats while towing dive flags and discussions about the inadequacy of the 12 by 12 inch divers down flag requirement. So much so that about 5 years ago the law was amended to allow development of better options and now includes “divers down warning devices” and allows for divers to “make reasonable efforts to stay within 300 feet” of said device (device is to display the flag emblem).

Think about it. IRL which do you think is more visible, a 12 by 12 flag that may be edge on to an approaching boat or my 8 foot yellow buoy?

I read your post to possibly mean that smb's were now officially designated as a replacement for a flag.

As suggested, I googled and this link came up. It is not the actual statute, I know, kinda lazy.

Diver-Down Warning Device

• If the divers-down warning device is a divers-down flag, the flag must:
  • Display the divers-down symbol on each face and…
  • Have a wire stiffener or be otherwise constructed to ensure it remains fully unfurled and extended, even when there is no wind or breeze.
• If the divers-down warning device is a buoy, the buoy must:
  • Have three or four sides with the divers-down symbol displayed on each of the flat sides and…
  • Be prominently visible on the water’s surface and not displayed on the vessel.

I think I recall that one guy invented an angular shaped float and then got FWC to amend the statute to allow "his" device. It was large, very visible and looked impractical to tow in a current, to me anyway.

My reading of that language does not seem to describe a cylindrical SMB with a flag or two on it.

I'm not saying that an SMB doesn't serve as a reasonable visual signal, but rather that I am surprised that it is allowed by LEO to supplant the need for a flag/float.

 

[The Chairman]

About flags: you need to display them in Florida waters (3 nautical miles on the Atlantic and 9 on the Gulf). Many of our deeper wrecks are outside of those boundaries. I have never heard of a person displaying a sausage in state waters getting a citation. I'm neither, LEO, lawyer, nor judge, so this advice is worth exactly what you've paid for it. Now, let's get back to the boat.

 

[uncfnp]

Regarding “devices” the law reads…


(e) “Divers-down warning device” means a divers-down flag, buoy, or other similar warning device that:
1. Contains a divers-down symbol that is at least 12 inches by 12 inches in dimension when displayed from the water or at least 20 by 24 inches in dimension when displayed from a vessel;
2. Is designed for, and used by, divers and dive vessels as a means to notify nearby boaters of the presence of a diver in the waters of the immediate area; and
3. Is prominently visible when in use.

My point is that is well recognized that the dive flag is inadequate and that better options are needed.

But no, my DSMB would not strictly meet the regulation, it does not have the symbol displayed on it. But I will also bet that it will be seen before that little flag and being seen is my priority.