Dive boat operators face charges of illegally feeding sharks in state waters

[diversteve]

It's not on us to prove that a natural behavior that's been going on forever hasnt' been altered - it's on you to prove that it hasn't. Because there seems to be a good many posters who've indicated that they've observed changes in behavior. And it's viewable in the videos. By someone with an open objective mind.

That and you never provided us with a single fact, not one scientific study to support your emotional outburst...But you can't even quantify that. It's all bluster and no science.

Back at ya... Except most of the bluster seems to be on your end...

Yet, you think that Randy's boat is the one changing all these shark's behavior?

No but he's obviously one of them...again referring to exhibit A - dizzle's videos.

Given the tone of your post, you're simply pissed that people are getting to see sharks by simply paying for it. Cry me a river. Making money isn't against the law. Feeding sharks in Federal waters isn't against the law either.

Give me a break. I don't have a dog in this fight. Except for advocating for the sharks.

Feeding sharks in Federal waters isn't against the law either.

I guess if that's what actually had happened then this thread wouldnt exist right?

I am however irked that Randy is providing it. Because he is altering their behavior for profit. Just because it's not against the law doesn't make it right. It's not against the law to ride Manta Rays either. Or for the Japanese to hunt Humbacks for "research purposes". Both of which I'm fairly sure you'd find offensive at the least.

It's a win/win for Randy and those who want to see this show.

Finally Pete you've stumbled on the truth of what's actually happening. Congratulations...

 

[HalcyonDaze]

FYI, "Mark the Shark" (a.k.a. "if I had a choice of any vessel in Miami to sink, it would be a toss-up between him and the Resorts World Bimini boat") operates out of Miami Beach - not Jupiter. If he's burning up a minimum four hours of fuel at near-top speed to get up to Randy's area of operations and then another four to get back to port, fine - he'll go broke. And I agree with Pete - gee, sharks DIDN'T bite at baits with hooks in them before this? I wonder how some populations got annihilated to within 5-10% of their prior numbers before shark-feeding operations started?

As far as our obligation to prove that the feeds are not affecting shark behavior, here's a little lesson in the scientific method:

First, develop a null and one or more alternative hypotheses. The null hypothesis is that there is no correlation between any of the factors you are testing for and the results of the scientific investigation. An alternative hypothesis is a provable correlation between a factor and a result. If you cannot statistically reject the null hypothesis through testing or observation, you cannot support an alternative hypothesis. The hypothesis that changes in the sharks' behavior - which, as described in this thread and others, seem to vary between observers - are directly related to feeding dives is by its nature an alternative hypothesis.

 

[The Chairman]

It's not on us to prove that a natural behavior that's been going on forever hasnt' been altered -

Negative, o' illogical one. You are contending that sharks never ate a piece of fish before Randy, so the onus is on you. You also claim that these changes exist and are harmful to sharks and divers. I can't prove a negative, so the onus is again on you. If you want to shut him down, you need to do the due diligence. So far, you can't attribute a single bite to shark feedings and you can't even ascribe any of the fed sharks to being caught by Mark the Shark. That's a bluster. I'm the bluster buster!

Again, it's your blustering and your fear mongering that are silting out the discussion. All diving is a show. What about that don't you understand? People dive to see pretty little fishies. Some want to be on their own and some want to pay more for apex predators. Either way, you're still paying to see the show of their choice. Make no doubt about it: ScubaBoard is a show too. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[diversteve]

I'll concede that Mark the Shark was a stretch. In my defense, I only speculated on it as a possibility. As much as Mark maybe won't burn the gas to get up there there's no proof one of the sharks won't venture down into his area either. Some species of shark move large distances annually. Maybe not Randy's since they are being fed.

Tell me again why Randy was [-]fined[/-] cited? Something about illegally baiting sharks too close to shore wasn't it? I still feel that's visibly demonstrated in the videos as a behavior alteration. I think where we're caught up is the definition. You consider it as just another part of the show I consider it an alteration of their normal behavior. And will continue to do so unless someone presents solid evidence to the contrary. I thought I was expressing that opinion here.

Negative, o' illogical one. You are contending that sharks never ate a piece of fish before Randy, so the onus is on you. You also claim that these changes exist and are harmful to sharks and divers. I can't prove a negative, so the onus is again on you. If you want to shut him down, you need to do the due diligence. So far, you can't attribute a single bite to shark feedings and you can't even ascribe any of the fed sharks to being caught by Mark the Shark. That's a bluster. I'm the bluster buster!

I don't know or care about Randy personally either way. Shutting him down is furthest from my position. Sad to say but when someone gets bit I'll probably feel vindicated. But won't be happy about it. Hope nobody goes after the sharks when it does either. Were you in the Keys when Jaws came out? Remember all the heroes driving around with the 10' sharks rotting and displayed in the backs of their boats after it did. Keeping the water safer for the rest of us? Sadly I still do...
Taking this slightly out of context - the original is here: http://emeraldcharters.com/stories.htm

In my thirty years of diving, I am sorry to say I have touched the fishes. I have even captured a puffer to let it blow up for the crowd. I realized several years ago it is not nice to blow up the puffers and all the wildlife should be left to it's natural self.

Apparently that only applies when there's no profit incentive. Sharks are fishes and wildlife also...

I can't prove a negative, so the onus is again on you.

Do you have a degree in shark research you've never disclosed? Again I can put everything back on you also. And we can keep doing it ad infiniteum. We'll probably never resolve it since our positions are so different. I can live with that, O bluster buster...

 

[HalcyonDaze]

Was he fined? I haven't seen anything yet about the outcome of the court case. Please let the law run its course before playing hangman.

 

[diversteve]

I mis-posted, he was cited...

On February 8, the FWC placed 2 undercover divers on the Emerald. They tracked us with a land based radar and video taped our Lemon Shark encounter. Lt Dave Bingham just met with me and gave me a ticket for feeding sharks in state waters. They determined I was 367' off the line. Regardless, I am cited and will have to go to court.

 

[Ed Jackson1]

I bet the undercover divers had fun even if they can't admit it.

 

[danvolker]

Just saw this in Facebook, and decided someone in this thread would relate to this

 

[The Chairman]

I'll concede that Mark the Shark was a stretch.

Calling that a stretch, is like calling the Titanic unsinkable a stretch. It's just fear mongering and you're not honest enough with yourself to see it.

In my defense, I only speculated on it as a possibility.

That's no defense but a confession! Speculation derived from some atavistic fear has been your MO and the one used by the entire anti-shark feeding gang. Me? I'm a skeptic. No, I'm not from Missouri, but you'll still have to show me. Speculations, assumptions and conjectures aren't enough for me to join your jihad. I need science. I need studies. I need something far more than your opinion for me to believe that feeding sharks does anything more than provide a fun show for the divers involved. So far, the sheer number of shark feeds with very few incidents impresses me more than your rendition of what "would've, should've, could've been a sharktastrophe". I mean really, have you ever considered being a writer for the next Sharknado? Your imagination is remarkable. Your grasp of the inane and remotely possible equally so. I would have loved to see the monster collection you had under your bed as a child.

 

[diversteve]

Is this your best shot? LMAO... Running out of argument and switching to bluster?

I need studies. I need something far more than your opinion for me to believe that feeding sharks does anything more than provide a fun show for the divers involved.

OK here's your proof. Or isn't the FWC a good enough authority for you either? You know, they have those scientist guys there...not some dive boat captain who thinks he's an expert. And since we're pushing the ToS now - or his buddy who owns the largest Scuba forum in the world.

The investigation, a joint effort by the Sheriff's Office and the wildlife agency, began after complaints came in about over-aggressive sharks approaching divers. The agency said the issue is one of public safety, since feeding sharks leads them to associate people with food.

Palm Beach shark feeding case goes to court - Sun Sentinel

You crack me up though...Fearmongering? We don't even seem to be debating the same issue...