Dive boat operators face charges of illegally feeding sharks in state waters

[T.C.]

No Mounties in Minnesota, they tend to stay in Canada

To the best of my knowledge, there are no law enforcement agencies in my area that would be so unprofessional as to hold grudges and act on them.

Closest to FWC would be DNR here, but I have never heard of them doing such things.

That's because you're still up in Minnesota.

Take it from a South Dakota Native; the cops are very professional up there. They respect you, as long as you respect them. Having moved down to the south, the cops here, are hot garbage. I've been told I'll be sent to jail for an expired license, that I was required to get a Georgia license because I live here (I'm in the Army, and my SD license does not expire as long as I'm on active duty), I've been forced to stand outside my vehicle for an hour because I refused consent for a search, watched cops repeatedly drive 15-20 over the speed limit, use their lights to get through traffic, and been forced to demonstrate that my M4 (civilian) is not fully automatic...even though the selector only has two positions.

All because the cop wanted to be a male reproductive organ, I don't have a problem with the police, and am happy to cooperate. But the cops here in the south don't care.

Trust me, if Wookie says the FWC will hold a grudge, I believe him.

 

[HalcyonDaze]

No Mounties in Minnesota, they tend to stay in Canada

To the best of my knowledge, there are no law enforcement agencies in my area that would be so unprofessional as to hold grudges and act on them.

Closest to FWC would be DNR here, but I have never heard of them doing such things.

I can believe Wookie on that one. Back when I was a graduate student in Southern California I was helping a colleague out with acoustic tracking of barred sand bass on the Huntington Flats. The pingers she implanted in the fish had a limited range - 500 yards, I think - and in order to get tracking data on them she had to drive the boat right over top of them and get a position fix every ten minutes (for 48 hours straight, which as you can imagine was a bit tedious).

Now, California does not close the bass season for spawning aggregations (which we were trying to study via the tracking), so during daylight hours there were about twenty Commercial Passenger Fishing Vessels anchored up on the flats while we were trying to follow fish around. A few times the fish would duck under a boat and we'd have to circle within yelling distance, and two CPFVs in particular got pretty pissy about that (most were good sports). Funnily enough, the project was a joint study with the California Department of Fish and Game and this one particular day we had two out-of-uniform CDFG officers (both former students of our program) helping. After a testy exchange over the radio, one of them looked at my colleague and said "Just say the word - we'll make his life hell for the next two months." The other boat that got upset with us started telling his customers over the PA how we were violating the law by maneuvering that close ... which was a new one for the USCG reservist we had driving that day.

Messing with people who give you lip is a time-honored law enforcement play which has to be used with some discretion; just enough to instill respect for the law without going over the line into abuse of power. Now, from what I've seen at least in Randy's posts he's been very civil in his comments regarding the FWC's actions; how much of that is honest opinion and how much is buttering them up I don't know. His braggadocio seems more aimed at his customers and critics.

 

[deeper thoughts]

I've never had contact with FWC, and already I don't like them

Though this may be unpopular on this thread, I have had nothing but good experiences with the FWC here in the upper keys

 

[CajunDiva]

I'm glad to hear your incident happened in California...for a minute there I thought T.C. was claiming that assholes only live in the south :shocked2:

Sorry T.C. - they are EVERYWHERE

 

[T.C.]

I'm glad to hear your incident happened in California...for a minute there I thought T.C. was claiming that assholes only live in the south :shocked2:

Sorry T.C. - they are EVERYWHERE

Yeah, assholes ARE everywhere. You're sitting on one!


But seriously, the cops are pretty bad around here. I have yet to have a pleasant encounter with a cop down here. The one who wanted to arrest me for the "expired license"; after explaining what the law was, I got fed up with him and told him to go ahead; I'd see him in front of the Judge, read them SD Codified Law 32-12-45, and embarrass his ass in front of everyone. He went back to his cruiser, thought about it, and wrote me a ticket for going 49 in a 45 zone. *******.

 

[boulderjohn]

On behalf of Australians everywhere I'd like to remind you that the US population is around 315 million, where Australia’s is only 23 million or so, thus making per capita figures far more scary.
That's roughly one person attacked in every 13,695,652 in the US versus one in every 2,300,000. More than six times more likely; with or without shark feeding.
Now, having done all that math, I need to run out and buy a lottery ticket.

I am going to guess that very, very few of the U.S. shark incidents happened in Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Kansas City, or any of the many highly populated areas of the country more than an easy drive from the coast.

I will say the same thing for Australia. None of the shark attacks happened inland there, either.

What's the difference?

Pretty much no one lives in the interior of Australia. The population is on the coasts. The 5 largest cities in Australia within a short hop for a day at the beach average about 3,000,000 people each. The largest city in the interior, as far as I can see, is Alice Springs, with a population under 25,000.

(That's my quick google-aided knowledge of Australian geography--glad to be corrected by those with more knowledge.)

 

[CajunDiva]

But seriously, the cops are pretty bad around here. I have yet to have a pleasant encounter with a cop down here. The one who wanted to arrest me for the "expired license"; after explaining what the law was, I got fed up with him and told him to go ahead; I'd see him in front of the Judge, read them SD Codified Law 32-12-45, and embarrass his ass in front of everyone. He went back to his cruiser, thought about it, and wrote me a ticket for going 49 in a 45 zone. *******.

That seems to go along with what Wookie was saying...

 

[danvolker]

On this theme, over half of Florida is too old to drive......and too old to dive

 

[HalcyonDaze]

I am going to guess that very, very few of the U.S. shark incidents happened in Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Kansas City, or any of the many highly populated areas of the country more than an easy drive from the coast.

I will say the same thing for Australia. None of the shark attacks happened inland there, either.

What's the difference?

Pretty much no one lives in the interior of Australia. The population is on the coasts. The 5 largest cities in Australia within a short hop for a day at the beach average about 3,000,000 people each. The largest city in the interior, as far as I can see, is Alice Springs, with a population under 25,000.

(That's my quick google-aided knowledge of Australian geography--glad to be corrected by those with more knowledge.)

Australia and Florida have fairly comparable population sizes, so comparing the numbers of attacks might be fair. However, Australia tends to have a higher proportion of fatal attacks because the sharks involved tend to be big. The bulk of Florida's "attacks" are nips from animals that probably weigh less than an average large-breed dog. I still crack up recalling one from St. Augustine a year or two ago. A real estate guy got bitten on the foot and told his dramatic story to the paper, saying the shark must have been six feet long and it hit him like a truck. He had to "struggle to shore" from the waist-deep water. The picture accompanying the article showed a handful of cuts in a semicircle across the top of his foot; whatever it was probably didn't have a mouth more than 4 inches across - an ankle-biter in the near-literal sense.

As far as the FWC, I've mostly had good experiences with them. The only real complaint I have at times is that they tend to be spread thin on the water, and because of the low pay it's hard to recruit and retain good officers. The one time I got mad at them was when two younger officers in Biscayne Bay motored over to us and tried to roust us for not having a dive flag - I think we were flying one from the boat, but they told us we should have a floating one. I was freediving in shallow water (< 6 feet) and my partner was on the surface with an inflatable "Diver Down" float operating the GPS unit. The kicker was that we were doing our biannual monitoring of a seagrass mitigation site off downtown Miami ... and judging from the big brown cloud of silt the FWC boat kicked up on its way over to us they may well have chewed a new prop scar into the grass bed.

 

[The Chairman]

You almost seem proud of your shark attack standings? Ever wonder if the booming shark dive business has any impact on shark attacks in the vicinity? You guys sure cant claim low averages over there close to the "feeding sites"... I get your argument and i don't disagree entirely, i just feel like we have a precedent to follow with *cough* every single other remotely comparable species *cough* and we know where this goes. A couple people will die, a few more hurt and a bunch of sharks killed.

Proud? Well, maybe a tad. The point is, there are several species that simply don't bite the hand that feeds them. Shark feeding has a long history here in Florida and as of yet no one has been able to trace any attack back to them.

We cant change the habits of wild animals without consequences.

But then, our very presence changes their habits. Are you suggesting that we simply stop our underwater intrusion? I'm not going for that.

Unequivocal is tough if not impossible but yes, i can say without doubt that they are more aggressive. The stories that are told are downright shocking sometimes and more are added all the time. I have personally been chased to the boat by a pack, yes a pack of 10 seriously turned up reef sharks. Nipping at my fins and buzzing our heads the whole way to the ladder. Clipped my EMPTY bag, stringer, gun to a line tied off to a cleat and they hit it!! Took it down and shredded the rope, all i got back was my custom gun and only because it could float!

So, you're seeing more aggressive sharks and you're on the other side of the state. That's significant, since it indicates that something OTHER than shark feeding is causing this.

Do i think this instance was from shark dives? No, I do not.

Honesty is a good thing. It helps you to cut through the BS.

Do i think that pack would have tried to eat anything they came across? Hell yes i do but the main point to take away here is i was most certainly on the menu. They were trying to eat me and i can say the same for at least 3 other sharks in the last couple of years. They will, in the right situation, enjoy the **** out of eating a person.

Summer of 75. A buddy and I are diving off Ponce Inlet. I don't think we were even hunting, just poking around off shore. My buddy pokes me in the arm and points behind us. There must have been a thousand spinner sharks schooling behind us. Jaws had just come out and we kind of walked on water to get back on shore. We were both ashamed of being scared out of the water by spinners, but such is the nature of fear: it's unreasonable.

Ill even take you diving if you want to see, give me three drops and if i cant get a shark to follow us without dead fish then i will pay for your gas. I never see too many sharks anymore.