Dive boat operators face charges of illegally feeding sharks in state waters

[HIGHwing]

If the State of Florida and dive operators were really worried about diver safety - we'd be having a conversation about Mini-Season.

 

[BRT]

Thank goodness that the USA is not quite yet a majority rule pure democracy. It is still somewhat of a republic as our founders planned.

 

[The Chairman]

If the State of Florida and dive operators were really worried about diver safety - we'd be having a conversation about Mini-Season.

The running joke in our household is that when mini-season is here, Elena and I head do something safe like dive in caves instead.

 

[HalcyonDaze]

First, the "you need a scientific study" issue....all we need is to check with the large body of long time spearfisherman in Palm Beach....They are the ones most likely to see behavioral changes..not some scientist ( either in a lab, or in a few dozen dives that will be meaningless without the baseline of the last 20 or 30 years). The tobacco industry demanded a study also, to prove cigarette smoking was bad for you.....this added about 20 years of nonsense, to an issue that had a well known outcome.

Dan, I'm trying to be civil ... but as a guy who's worked at a few marine science institutes and worked with a few shark experts, as someone who has the word in his job title ... do not bust out the "scientists don't know anything" argument. I take a level of professional offense to that. As a field scientist I can agree that local fishermen and divers often have a good perspective on how things are changing in an ecosystem, but I can also say that their observations are at times not unbiased. Or they don't all match up. You cite unnamed spearfishers; we've had a couple veteran divers on here plus myself (diving WPB/Jupiter on and off for eight years now) who are reporting a different picture. Anecdotal accounts alone are not going to cut it.

The tendency I've seen in some of the accounts from spearfishers is to completely disregard the fact that these are opportunistic marine predators. They have very good senses and they wouldn't last long in the wild if they did not investigate the presence of blood and struggling fish - whether or not they're being offered food by divers on a regular basis. I will take their testimony ... but I'll also want to crack open the International Shark Attack File in Gainesville to see what the records are for shark attacks on divers in Florida. As I recall (I posted the info in one of the other "let's bash Randy" threads), as of 2010 there were something like 20 recorded unprovoked shark attacks on divers in Florida waters. A grand total of 3 took place in the 2000-2009 timeframe; I assume the genius in Key Largo who got his lips crushed by a nurse shark doesn't count as "unprovoked." The last fatal shark attack on a diver in Florida that I'm aware of was in 2000, and as I recall it wasn't even a bite - the diver was fighting a bull shark, possibly for a fish, and his reg fell out. The biggest chunk, 7, took place in the 1960s. One of the earliest shark books I got as a kid had an account from the 60s of a spearfisherman off West Palm getting harassed by a great hammerhead. So going by a cursory examination of the historical record, spearfishers getting harassed and attacked by sharks in Florida waters is not a new development.

The other method? Forget the lab. Go out there and develop a field study. Neil Hammerschlag's group did a comparative satellite tracking study of tiger sharks at Tiger Beach and in Florida; I don't necessarily think that's the most illuminating approach to the problem but it's one data-gathering tool in the arsenal. Given the scope of this discussion I'd be more interested in direct behavioral observations with variables like type of attractant (speared fish, cut bait, shooting guns but no bait, and no guns or bait). Another variable could be diver behavior, to see if the sharks are reacting to tight-packed groups of divers settling on the bottom as opposed to drifting straight through. Ideally you would have multiple control sites (spots where sharks are present but haven't been fed) and experimental sites (Randy's usual spots).

 

[The Chairman]

a neat trick to attract sharks is to crinkle a plastic bottle under water. How did the sharks learn that one?

Shark Attack at 57 Meters
​

 

[CajunDiva]

The running joke in our household is that when mini-season is here, Elena and I head do something safe like dive in caves instead.

That's when it's time to come to Louisiana for crawfish and gumbo

 

[Wookie]

That's when it's time to come to Louisiana for crawfish and gumbo

I wish. Crawfish season is just starting (my East Texas friends are all bragging about their low country boils) but mini-season is in the height of summer.

 

[CajunDiva]

Take heart Wookie...it's always the season for SOMETHING in Louisiana!

Our four seasons are: Crawfish, Crab, Shrimp and Fish

 

[danvolker]

Dan, I'm trying to be civil ... but as a guy who's worked at a few marine science institutes and worked with a few shark experts, as someone who has the word in his job title ... do not bust out the "scientists don't know anything" argument. I take a level of professional offense to that. As a field scientist I can agree that local fishermen and divers often have a good perspective on how things are changing in an ecosystem, but I can also say that their observations are at times not unbiased. Or they don't all match up. You cite unnamed spearfishers; we've had a couple veteran divers on here plus myself (diving WPB/Jupiter on and off for eight years now) who are reporting a different picture. Anecdotal accounts alone are not going to cut it.

The tendency I've seen in some of the accounts from spearfishers is to completely disregard the fact that these are opportunistic marine predators. They have very good senses and they wouldn't last long in the wild if they did not investigate the presence of blood and struggling fish - whether or not they're being offered food by divers on a regular basis. I will take their testimony ... but I'll also want to crack open the International Shark Attack File in Gainesville to see what the records are for shark attacks on divers in Florida. As I recall (I posted the info in one of the other "let's bash Randy" threads), as of 2010 there were something like 20 recorded unprovoked shark attacks on divers in Florida waters. A grand total of 3 took place in the 2000-2009 timeframe; I assume the genius in Key Largo who got his lips crushed by a nurse shark doesn't count as "unprovoked." The last fatal shark attack on a diver in Florida that I'm aware of was in 2000, and as I recall it wasn't even a bite - the diver was fighting a bull shark, possibly for a fish, and his reg fell out. The biggest chunk, 7, took place in the 1960s. One of the earliest shark books I got as a kid had an account from the 60s of a spearfisherman off West Palm getting harassed by a great hammerhead. So going by a cursory examination of the historical record, spearfishers getting harassed and attacked by sharks in Florida waters is not a new development.

The other method? Forget the lab. Go out there and develop a field study. Neil Hammerschlag's group did a comparative satellite tracking study of tiger sharks at Tiger Beach and in Florida; I don't necessarily think that's the most illuminating approach to the problem but it's one data-gathering tool in the arsenal. Given the scope of this discussion I'd be more interested in direct behavioral observations with variables like type of attractant (speared fish, cut bait, shooting guns but no bait, and no guns or bait). Another variable could be diver behavior, to see if the sharks are reacting to tight-packed groups of divers settling on the bottom as opposed to drifting straight through. Ideally you would have multiple control sites (spots where sharks are present but haven't been fed) and experimental sites (Randy's usual spots).

Halcyon Daze...By your SB name, there is no way for me to have known your real name or occupation. In any event, nothing I said was aimed at your profession.

This thread has already done what it needed to....It got Randy's friends the opportunity to get a few thousand divers, to THINK about the issues from their perspective...

And hopefully the posts by myself and a few others, helped get divers to think about the whether there is something going on that they should be worked up about.


The ALTERNATIVE to this discussion, would have been the GENERAL APATHY that plagues us in this country, where people get so caught up in their own daily lives, that they just don't put much thought into things going on, in the outside world, that could have a big future impact on them. I think I said enough to get divers thinking about this issue. What they do with it, is another story. They did practically nothing with the threat of the Goliath Groupers being threatened by an open season.....the last minute save was by some scientists--not by the public outrage that never really materialized.

 

[The Chairman]

They did practically nothing with the threat of the Goliath Groupers being threatened by an open season.....the last minute save was by some scientists--not by the public outrage that never really materialized.

Science should always triumph over BS and public hysteria. Reason should always triumph over the mob mentality no matter how noble you think the cause.