Dive boat etiquette - list

[Culcuhain]

Take Pictures.
Leave Bubbles.

 

[RJP]

I also agree with that only in your way not in there's way because it cause a big problem.

ALL YOUR POST ARE BELONG TO US! j

 

[SC_Hoaty]

ALL YOUR POST ARE BELONG TO US! j

 

[nimoh]

You're ignoring the reality that - by and large - here in the US boat crews are not paid anything but tips. You can argue whether that is "right" but it is reality.

Before you say "that's between the boat and the crew, the boat should pay the crew, why should I have to make up the difference?" Here's some more reality for you. For typical day charters, if the crew was paid the equivalent of "$10 a tank" your trip would probably end up costing you $20 a tank more. Why? Because the boat would have to bear the overhead of processing payroll, pay payroll tax, etc, etc, etc. An increase in operating cost is going to be passed on to the customer in the form of a increase in charter cost.

So the reality is that without tips the crew would earn NOTHING. Do you think what the crew does for passengers is worth SOMETHING? Or should they do what they do for you out of the goodness of their heart?

If you agree that the crew's time/toil is worth something, would you prefer to tip $20 on top of a $100 charter price... or be absolved of the need to tip, but have the up-front charter price rise from $100 to $130 to cover the cost of the boat paying the crew?

I can do more than argue whether or not it is right, I can vote on whether or not it is right by tipping or not tipping.

As for your examples of why it would cost more to pay the employee rather than relying on tips, if the employee is paid a base wage, increasing the base wage would not incur greater payroll processing cost (e.g. it doesn't cost more to write 100 vs 120)
. As for tax withholding, the employee still has to pay tax on tips, so no loss there. Lastly, for payroll tax, this is commonly fixed, but even if proportional, wouldn't amount to very much paying the employee an extra $20/day.

I worked in a full service gas station for years as a teenager, and received very few tips. Why is working on a dive boat different than pumping gas?

 

[cbm32]

"You're ignoring the reality that - by and large - here in the US boat crews are not paid anything but tips. You can argue whether that is "right" but it is reality."

"So the reality is that without tips the crew would earn NOTHING. Do you think what the crew does for passengers is worth SOMETHING? Or should they do what they do for you out of the goodness of their heart? "

Sorry but if the crew is paid nothing they surely know that when they sign up. If they sign up for an unpaid job, I can only assume that they are willing to do that job out of the goodness of their hearts or in exchange for the experience and or pleasure they get out of doing the job. Any tips that are forthcoming is alllll gravy, as they apparently were happy to do the job for no monetary compensation or they wouldn't have signed on. Would any rational person sign on for a job that doesnt pay? Hell yes. It is done all the time and it is called volunteering. Hell, I would be tickled to death to be able to do all my diving for free in exchange for helping other divers. Any dive ops in Fiji or the Caribbean or HI or most anyplace else (well not the cold north east though) that see this just contact me and call my bluff PLEASE!!! I have time from about mid-August until some time in December available.

Perhaps we all should start asking if the boat crew is paid prior to booking, and if the answer is no, book someplace else. If everyone did this, I suspect it wouldn't be long before boat crews were paid by the people that should be paying them. Would the up front cost to divers go up? Of course it would. But then the TOTAL cost is a known factor when booking and the ones that were tipping don't have to carry the load for those that were not tipping.

 

[PhillyDave]

CBM So you'd rather take the average $100 charter, have it bumped up to $150 so the DM and crew gets a definite cut? Why not pay the $100 tip the DM $5 a tank and a few bucks if they filet your fish etc? It's bad enough the fees get bumped up for fuel surcharges. These guys know there are some cheapskates out there. Just make sure you tell the crew what you are before the boat leaves the dock instead of asking if they get paid.

This tipping discussion is just to make people aware that it's ok to tip the crew. They spend their own money on gear and fuel to get to the boat and help you when you need it. I don't think pumping gas deserves a tip (you are getting paid) but if you wash my windows or give me a car freshener then I'll throw you a buck.

 

[SC_Hoaty]

I'm done with the tipping thing.

 

[RJP]

I can do more than argue whether or not it is right, I can vote on whether or not it is right by tipping or not tipping.

As for your examples of why it would cost more to pay the employee rather than relying on tips, if the employee is paid a base wage, increasing the base wage would not incur greater payroll processing cost (e.g. it doesn't cost more to write 100 vs 120)
. As for tax withholding, the employee still has to pay tax on tips, so no loss there. Lastly, for payroll tax, this is commonly fixed, but even if proportional, wouldn't amount to very much paying the employee an extra $20/day.

I worked in a full service gas station for years as a teenager, and received very few tips. Why is working on a dive boat different than pumping gas?

We all understand, you don't like tipping. But do you really want/need a listing of all the ways that working on a dive boat is different than pumping gas?

Here in NJ dive boats are essentially run as hobbies by guys who love diving and own a boat. They are not a business like a full-service gas station. They do not have bookkeepers or accountants or a payroll system. Point of fact, they do not have employees. If the boat needed to pay the crew, the boat would need a bookkeeper, a payroll service, they would have to withhold income and payroll taxes, disability, unemployment insurance, make quarterly filings, etc, etc. All that stuff would add incremental costs to the price of the charter that would FAR exceed the extra $5-$10 a tank that comprises the customary tip.

I'll never for the life of me understand why some people get so blinded by their own biases that they will strongly advocate for things that are so obviously contrary to their own financial best interests. So keep pushing for the boat to pay the crew directly, and then instead of paying $100 for the charter plus $10-$20 in tips you'll be able to take your share of the credit for cutting the tips to zero and driving the charter cost to $130-$140.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

If the capt or operator of the boat thinks his DM's offer so little value that he is willing to pay them NOTHING, then why should I, as a customer, feel that I am obligated to pay them? Only kidding (sorta)...

I think part of the issue is liability from both the operator's standpoint and the DM's. I know when I was working as a DM on a boat and somebody got their skull split open by a boat prop.... I had become an unpaid volunteer, pretty damn FAST!

I was NOT an employee when I recovered the body and I most certainly was not offered any tips on THAT trip.

 

[RJP]

. Hell, I would be tickled to death to be able to do all my diving for free in exchange for helping other divers.

You talk a good game, but you'll give a bit more thought to the notion after a few mornings of getting up a 3:30am to drive to the boat (gas + tolls) to get the boat set up (oil checked, filled, fuel checked, filled, lines squared away) in time for the passengers to arrive at 6am so you can load 18 divers each with ~200lbs of tanks and gear onto the boat in time for a 7am departure to hump out to the wreck where you can drop into 150ft of darkness to try to find the wreck and spend 1/3rd of your bottom time tying in, do a quick dive, come back up, maybe hose some puke off the deck, help some passengers shuck some scallops, get lunch set up, hand out water and soft-drinks, help divers get geared up for their second dive, hose some more puke, fix a clogged head, meticulously log run-times, check divers in and out, etc before doing a bounce dive to 150ft (yeah - another free dive) to pull the hook, do a free-ascent, get back on the boat, pull up all the lines and rigs, shuck some more scallops, hump back to the dock, unload 18 divers each with ~200lbs of tanks, gear, etc. clean the boat, and get it all squared away for the next day. And if you're really lucky in addition to your free dives... maybe you'll get to search for a missing diver, or have someone surface unconscious 100yds off away from the boat and get to swim out to them, roll them over and see that "they're gone" or maybe you can actually find the missing diver's body and get to bring it to the surface. If it's a slow day, maybe you just get to do CPR on the unresponsive diver and if things go well you can stabilize them until the Coast Guard helicopter arrives. Taking the basket on a moving boat is fun! As is loading the victim and their gear into it. And even if the whole day runs without a hitch, you need to be willing to jump in the water at risk to yourself to save another diver at any point in time.

All that in exchange for a free day of diving!

Woo-hoo!

Do I do it for the money? No. Do I need the money? No. Do some people who crew on a boat need the money? Absolutely. Would some of them be able to dive as often as they do if they didn't crew on a boat. Absolutely not. Do both of us equally resent the attitude of people who don't appreciate the time and effort we invest in ensuring that they have a fun, safe, comfortable day of diving. You bet! Do we resent not getting a wet $10 bill from you? No. It's the clear "you-should-do-this-for-me-for-free" attitude we resent. Because, since you understand that the crew works for no compensation but tips, that's really all that you have left.

Fortunately, in the time I've been crewing on a dive boat, I've never met anyone with that attitude anywhere other than on ScubaBoard. I know that everyone who dives with us genuinely appreciates what we do for them. Sure, that appreciation is often expressed in the form of a couple of bucks. But more important than that, I know that appreciation is there because it is universally expressed with a broad smile, a warm handshake, heartfelt thanks, a statement of "dude, thanks for making today a blast" and more often than not a "...hope to see you next time out!"

---------- Post added ----------

If the capt or operator of the boat thinks his DM's offer so little value that he is willing to pay them NOTHING, then why should I, as a customer, feel that I am obligated to pay them?

Again, it's that pesky "reality thing" again. It's not that the captain is "unwilling" to pay the crew... it's the economic reality that he may not be ABLE to pay them.

And, in case anyone is confused about this, there is no animosity between captain/owner and crew. It's not like we all sit around and grouse about being pressed into indentured servitude. Everyone understands the relationship, the responsibilities, and the potential for compensation.