Ditching the poodle jacket

[Sas]

Hi Sas,

Just in the process of emailing you - my week has got better so actually have time to do something not high blood pressure inducing...

Good to hear!

Re: comfort harness... hmmm... one thing I really like about the dragon (maybe only thing) is the back cushion. Prior to this with rental BCs my back would be in agony at the end of a dive (guess the integrated weights help here too) so my natural inclination would be towards comfort, assuming it would be easier on my lower back than the one-piece???

Well actually, there is kind of an inbetween with a comfort harness and a one piece, not sure what it is usually called but it is like a one piece but with only one quick release and it generally has shoulder padding. Maybe that might be the one you are after?

Re: STA - the Oxycheq harness I'm looking at (below) doesn't need an STA. Not sure whether this is a good thing or a bad thing....

It depends on what you want... I will probably get an STA just so I can swap easily between singles + doubles (though I have got the process down to 5mins...). Other than that I see no need for it personally.

So, in my infinite laziness, in addition to a freedom plate, here is my current wish list... anything missing? Any thoughts on pockets? I'm kinda partial to them - is one enough?

Start with one, perhaps And see how you go?

Oxycheq Mach V Signature Series
Oxycheq Deluxe Adjustable Harness System
Oxycheq Crotch Strap
Oxycheq Medium Weight Pocket
Oxycheq X-Pocket
Freedom plate

Would this cover most of the bases?

Yep.

And what's the best way to get sized? I'm not going to have the opportunity to try anything on :-(

I guess the process would be roughly like this: Hogarthian Harness Assembly Instructions - Dive Gear Express even with a non one piece harness.

The harness is the main thing given you are of normal height (so plate should be fine) - I've had all sorts of people in my BP/W and you just adjust it like in that link.

It's true that some are light, but there is a difference nonetheless; so it means less weight is required

The difference is minimal and may be offset by other aspects of the BP/W given how little some STAs can weigh. The only way to determine this is to do a weight check.

 

[InTheDrink]

I think the 'Why' question may have been more focused on your stipulation of RIGHT side dumps, as opposed to the more common LEFT side dumps. Why specifically RIGHT side? Having both a shoulder and bottom dump is common, but on the left side.

ah well that's fine then. I don't care whether left or right, just bottom AND top ideally.

J

 

[Tortuga68]

The difference is minimal and may be offset by other aspects of the BP/W given how little some STAs can weigh

Not to be disagreeable, but less weight is less weight; a BPW with an STA is going to weigh more than the same BPW without an STA. I'm not sure what we are disussing

 

[Sas]

Not to be disagreeable, but less weight is less weight; a BPW with an STA is going to weigh more than the same BPW without an STA. I'm not sure what we are disussing

I really have no idea why you keep saying that, you do appear to be disagreeing with something I am not even saying. I was and have always been, talking about the net effect (which may be more weight or less, he is switching an entire BC system you know...). You appear to be talking about the gross effect of an STA, which has already been covered and I do not disagree that it weights more, just that this might have no bearing on whether or not John needs more or less weight because of the STA.

 

[Tortuga68]

I really have no idea why you keep saying that, you do appear to be disagreeing with something I am not even saying

STA can remove some more weight from your weight belt though as you can buy heavier ones

Anyway, back on topic

 

[Tortuga68]

ah well that's fine then. I don't care whether left or right, just bottom AND top ideally

Can't think of any single tank wings off hand that have top dump, usually just bottom and inflator off the top

 

[InTheDrink]

Can't think of any single tank wings off hand that have top dump, usually just bottom and inflator off the top

I guess I'll manage without top dump if they're not standard.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

I have not seen top shoulder dumps on bp/w. I thought I would miss it, did not since I am in proper trim 99% of the time with a wing and the butt dump is optimal when in trim. If you think about it, having your hand on the hose is optimal since you can control and slow your descent from the git go rather than switching from shoulder dump to inflator on the fly.

Also, I think on of the reasons for 1 pull dump on the butt for wings to to reduce the imapct of dump failure. If the butt dump fails open, you just maintain a vertical position and can still use your wing to some degree. If the hose exhaust fails, you just hold the hose down and you can still use the wing in a horizontal positon. If the shoulder dump fails open you are SOL unless you are comfortable with diving head down

 

[TSandM]

Given your preferences, and the statements in your original post, are you set on a BP/W, or are you looking at back-inflate BCs? Your request for a right shoulder dump and padding would be much easier to fulfill with a back-inflate BC, like a SeaQuest Balance. Backplate systems tend to be stripped down to the core, functional components, and eschew padding and additional dumps, because they aren't felt to be necessary. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't have them if you want them, even if I think you would find you don't need them.

If you are doing dives below 30 meters in a relatively heavy wetsuit, you may NOT want to use a steel plate and STA to meet your ballast needs. At those depths, the wetsuit will have lost much of its buoyancy, and if you have all your ballast built into your rig, you have no weight to ditch in the event of a wing failure. In a situation like that, you may want to split your ballast, so you have some on your back (steel tank, maybe steel plate) and the rest on a belt or in a weight harness that you can ditch if you have to. Either that, or carry some type of auxiliary buoyancy (lift bag) or use a dry suit.

Anyway, your original list -- plate, wing, harness, weight system -- is pretty complete except for some kind of pockets for small items. Many BP owners put the pockets on their exposure protection, because the harness gets crowded and fussy if you try to put weights and pockets on it.

 

[Deep South Divers]

A correctly-placed bottom dump should be on the LEFT side. That way, you can control all of your inflate/deflate needs with your left hand alone. This leaves your right hand to handle a scooter, light, tool, OOG buddy, or whatever. If your power inflator/dump was on the left and the bottom dump on the right, you'd have to switch out hands all the time, depending on your attitude in the water.

Generally, most wings don't have a shoulder dump because they don't work well on a wing. When you pull on a shoulder dump (whether you're talking about a "string" style like on the right shoulder of a ScubaPro BC or a shoulder dump at the top of your power inflator hose), it just sorta folds the wing over with not much net effect left to operate the shoulder dump. The shoulder dumps at the top of the inflator hose can be iffy anyway, with cables and wires and clamps hidden that can not be rinsed - often a failure point and yet another thing to have to maintain. They kinda suck, IMHO - but you may be of a different opinion. Like GrumpyOldGuy said, I thought I'd miss it when I went from a BC to a BP/wing - but I don't... Largely because I'm more horizontal in the water today that I used to be (probably because of the trim of the plate) and therefore using the bottom dump most of the time.

InTheDrink, are you diving wet or dry? Salt or fresh? What sort of steel tank are you usually diving with?

Personally, I prefer a more standard plate design than the Freedom offers, but that's just an opinion. If it were me, I'd be looking at a Koplin plate offered by Oxycheq. I've got several plates, and these are my favorites for fit and finish. I also like Halcyon's SS plates, although they're a bit "blingy" for my tastes - and pricey.

...But depending on your dive style and gear, an aluminum plate may better serve you. What's your situation?

When it comes to STAs, I'm a big fan of the Koplin hourglass-shaped "light" STA. Very secure, and gives me the room I need between my head and the tank valve, without raising my dive profile too much. (STA-less wings keep the tank too close to my head and are sloppy when changing tanks.) Convertible STAs (the ones that allow you to add 6 lbs of lead) aren't a very good design, IMHO... I don't like the sloppy feeling of the way that the tank sits in there when you've got the weight in. It also usually requires some cam band adjustment when putting the weight in. Some convertible STAs I've seen have higher "sides," but then the tank is waaaay off of my back, and affects my trim poorly - especially when using a steel tank (tends to "turtle" me - I think that weighted STAs are more appropriate for aluminum tanks, and even then I'm not too much of a fan).

One more opinion - I would hold off on weight pockets and plan on using the system's weight to pretty much nail your weighting, no additional lead necessary. Remember, you can always simply add a couple of pounds right onto the harness if you need it. The only thing that weight pockets do for you is make weight ditchable, which you may find out you don't need after diving this system.