Disturbing trend in diving?

[Eric Sedletzky]

So, on the subject of the lawsuit thing some people have been discussing. A lawyer I know, whenever I ask him if I could sued for something, always says the same thing:

“You can always get sued.”

Somewhere out there is a lawyer who will take the case, bill by the hour, and lose. Doesn’t mean it’ll happen to you, or even to anyone at all. Just means it can. On the one hand, you need to ask yourself if you want the hassel and expense of defending such a lawsuit.

On the other, do you wanna live your life in fear that you might get sued over nothing? Do your research, cover your bases to a reasonable degree, then go live your life. Trust that if it comes to it, twelve hopefully honest men will agree with you. That’s my take on all this.

Draw up a buddy waiver and make them sign it.
We have a multi page waiver that we make all our volunteer divers and shore support fill out and sign. I had an attorney help me with it.
That's about the best you can do. Other than that just go out and have fun and live your life.

 

[glazerama]

So, lately I've seen some things posted that have me raising my eyebrows a bit.
There have been a few stories posted about people relying completely on the divemasters or guides for their bottom times, NDL status, basic dive profiles. This seems to be in Mexico from what I gather but it might include some other locations.
The trend seems to be that these divers in question don't have computers or depth gauges/any kind of timing device and rely 100% on the divemasters to take care of them and keep them safe.
Is this a thing?

I saw this in Moorea in January. Reputable shop with good reviews. Did not require computer or bottomtimer and did not rent as part of normal gear package. Said French agency did not require them as the dive master was responsible. I had the appropriate gear for my party but was shocked.

 

[TLBoehnke]

So, lately I've seen some things posted that have me raising my eyebrows a bit.
There have been a few stories posted about people relying completely on the divemasters or guides for their bottom times, NDL status, basic dive profiles. This seems to be in Mexico from what I gather but it might include some other locations.
The trend seems to be that these divers in question don't have computers or depth gauges/any kind of timing device and rely 100% on the divemasters to take care of them and keep them safe.
Is this a thing?

I was in Cozumel two weeks ago and there were two men on my boat that hadn't dived in over a year and had no computers or charts with them. They relied solely on the DM's profile and time, as well as their air. They knew they did not have computers!

 

[Allen-1]

I was in Cozumel two weeks ago and there were two men on my boat that hadn't dived in over a year and had no computers or charts with them. They relied solely on the DM's profile and time, as well as their air. They knew they did not have computers!

 

[John C. Ratliff]

This happens all the time, how often during a briefing do you hear the question "Does anyone not have a computer" and the hands go up.

If it's a guided dive and the divers stay with the DM and abort the dive if they get separated they'll be just fine, you know the DM isn't going to be pushing the NDL limits. You might not dive that way, I've got 3 computers on me at all times and I'm self reliant, but the vast majority of divers don't make a career of it. They get certified and dive maybe 1 week a year so they aren't up to speed and they don't want to be.

They'll be just fine

Until something unexpected happens. If the DM has an emergency, and has to dive deeper to pull someone out of a bad situation, do they follow him/her? It sounds like a trusting situation where they are relying upon everything going as planned.

SeaRat

 

[Pressurehead]

This happens all the time, how often during a briefing do you hear the question "Does anyone not have a computer" and the hands go up

And, a few with rental computers asking "how do I set it for Nitrox, does it turn on by it self"? On a dive charter last week. Everyone had a dive computer, you are not allowed on the boat otherwise, just don't know how to use them.

 

[SouthernSharktoothDiver]

I will say this much. The idea of a diver going diving without a bottom timer or computer is not, inherently, a problem. For one example, a man I know who has been diving for almost forty years never uses either for his recreational diving. He remains above forty feet in depth, only dives aluminum 80's, and thus, according to the dive tables and his SAC rate, can never come anywhere close to hitting his NDL. Therefore, he has no use for either timers or computers unless he wishes to deviate from that pattern (which, from what he has told me, he only does when working with the local rescue squad, and then he carries a computer).

Similarly, if the bottom depth is say, 30-45 feet, as many reefs are, it would be rather difficult to hit your NDL even if you were actively trying to do so, on standard single tank dives. Even on deeper dives, this is not really an issue if the dive guide has a timer on him, knows the deepest you can go is say, 60 feet, and has everyone back on the boat in half an hour.

Obviously, the standard two dive package makes this a litttle more complicated, but still, it would be perfectly safe to use the instructors timer and tables, if he calibrates things based on a hard floor (the bottom) and keeps an eye on his watch. Not saying I recommend it, I don't generally do guided dives at all, but it's not necessarily unsafe.

 

[TMHeimer]

This happens all the time, how often during a briefing do you hear the question "Does anyone not have a computer" and the hands go up.

If it's a guided dive and the divers stay with the DM and abort the dive if they get separated they'll be just fine, you know the DM isn't going to be pushing the NDL limits. You might not dive that way, I've got 3 computers on me at all times and I'm self reliant, but the vast majority of divers don't make a career of it. They get certified and dive maybe 1 week a year so they aren't up to speed and they don't want to be.

They'll be just fine

The problem I see with them not having computers is that no doubt they don't have tables or know how to read them. That's scary. I did the vast majority of my charter boat diving (2006-2014 or so) with tables and dive watch only. But I review the tables often (and have a computer of course as well).

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I will say this much. The idea of a diver going diving without a bottom timer or computer is not, inherently, a problem. For one example, a man I know who has been diving for almost forty years never uses either for his recreational diving. He remains above forty feet in depth, only dives aluminum 80's, and thus, according to the dive tables and his SAC rate, can never come anywhere close to hitting his NDL. Therefore, he has no use for either timers or computers unless he wishes to deviate from that pattern (which, from what he has told me, he only does when working with the local rescue squad, and then he carries a computer).

Similarly, if the bottom depth is say, 30-45 feet, as many reefs are, it would be rather difficult to hit your NDL even if you were actively trying to do so, on standard single tank dives. Even on deeper dives, this is not really an issue if the dive guide has a timer on him, knows the deepest you can go is say, 60 feet, and has everyone back on the boat in half an hour.

Obviously, the standard two dive package makes this a litttle more complicated, but still, it would be perfectly safe to use the instructors timer and tables, if he calibrates things based on a hard floor (the bottom) and keeps an eye on his watch. Not saying I recommend it, I don't generally do guided dives at all, but it's not necessarily unsafe.

That's fine if it's shallow enough and there is no risk of running anywhere close to NDL.
But then you say "Even on deeper dives this is not really an issue if the dive guide has a timer on him".
If the dive guide has to have a timer (or computer) then why wouldn't you have one? Is this just laziness or are people just that cheap?
I do a lot if dives for two hours but the depth is only 10' to 15' or 20'. For those dives I only have an SPG and a compass. a computer isn't necessary because it is physically impossible to run out of NDL that shallow, and besides why risk damaging a computer or losing it while doing work dives? At most I would have a watch or timing device but that would only be so I would know what time it is and or know how long I've been in the water. More just for curiosity, that's all.
But if it involved any depth that I could potentially run out of NDL, you bet your sweet arse I'd have a computer or bottom timer!

 

[SouthernSharktoothDiver]

@Eric Sedletzky To be honest, I don't know why someone wouldn't carry at least a timer. The one such dive I did, I used my timex Ironman to keep time. But, the point remains that there wouldn't be anything particularly dangerous about it.