Disturbing trend in diving?

[DunningKruger]

You can call a dive at any time: in bed, on the boat, in the water, whenever.

I was faced with just this dilemma a few days ago. I am here diving in Fakarava, French Polynesia. Overall I've been happy with the dive service and their dive masters. I'm still very new <30 dives.

One dive involves holding on to the bottom in the current before dropping into "Alibaba Canyon" in the North Pass. The DM's instructions were "let me know when your computer says you have 5 minutes of NDL remaining." I did exactly that and got the OK sign in return. But time was ticking and before we the group got started on the ascent (and into the current) my computer went into deco mode (3 minutes at 3 meters). Fortunately it cleared during the ensuing ascent and safety stop. I would have preferred to go up earlier, but doing so would have put me into the current and flushed me well away from the group. Not the end of the world I know, but undesirable from a pickup logistics standpoint. I was also deep into my gas reserve by the time we got to the surface.

Had I been diving on my own with a buddy we wouldn't have cut it nearly this close. But I suspect the DM's computer was less conservative than mine and she never had it go into deco. She'd done this dive enough to know how it would all play out.

I'm headed back to that same site again next week and this time I'll have a more in depth discussion with the DM about this.

Comments and criticisms encouraged.

 

[Scuba-74]

I was faced with just this dilemma a few days ago. I am here diving in Fakarava, French Polynesia. Overall I've been happy with the dive service and their dive masters. I'm still very new <30 dives.

One dive involves holding on to the bottom in the current before dropping into "Alibaba Canyon" in the North Pass. The DM's instructions were "let me know when your computer says you have 5 minutes of NDL remaining." I did exactly that and got the OK sign in return. But time was ticking and before we the group got started on the ascent (and into the current) my computer went into deco mode (3 minutes at 3 meters). Fortunately it cleared during the ensuing ascent and safety stop. I would have preferred to go up earlier, but doing so would have put me into the current and flushed me well away from the group. Not the end of the world I know, but undesirable from a pickup logistics standpoint. I was also deep into my gas reserve by the time we got to the surface.

Had I been diving on my own with a buddy we wouldn't have cut it nearly this close. But I suspect the DM's computer was less conservative than mine and she never had it go into deco. She'd done this dive enough to know how it would all play out.

I'm headed back to that same site again next week and this time I'll have a more in depth discussion with the DM about this.

Comments and criticisms encouraged.

How did the ascent look like? Was it one of those drift dives when the guide shoots the sausage and everyone ascends together around him/her?

If so, I don't think you could have done anything differently. You communicated what the guide asked of you. The fact that her computer could have been less conservative doesn't matter, she knew that you were approaching your NDL. The only thing you could have done differently is try and stay shallower than the group if you knew you were the first one to hit the mark.

 

[Leatherboot69]

I am unaware of this. Could you provide details? Pray be specific as to what exactly was changed and when it was changed.

I don’t know details about what was changed or how. I’ve read in a few places that in the 1970s the options for scuba training were with providers such as BSAC, LA County and YMCA, developed by former military divers and lasting several weeks and with fairly high barriers to entry (such as pass/fail fitness tests). As has been mentioned by others elsewhere in SB, in 1978 - according to what I read, at least - PADI chopped this all-in, ‘just in case’ training up into modular ‘just in time’ training, making it much more accessible and cheaper.

For example:

“1978: PADI Scuba Course and Modern Instruction

While it seems standard today, the modular scuba program was revolutionary to diving when PADI launched it in 1978. For the first time, instructional design coupled with integrated manuals, audiovisuals, tests, and instructor guides came to diver training. The new course focused on practical skills, breaking away from the industry focus on excessive theoretical knowledge and military-like standards. With the introduction of the new PADI course, diving saw immediate and steady increases in the number of divers, yet a fall in diver fatality rates. Learning to dive was more fun, efficient, and effective than ever.

1979: PADI Certifications Skyrocket

Certification rates boomed throughout the ’70s, thanks largely to the PADI System of Diver Education, and boosted by advances in dive gear options and design. By the end of the decade, PADI had gone from 25,000 certifications a year to more than 100,000 in 1979. Today, PADI averages more than 900,000 certifications annually, with more than 24 million total certifications.”

PADI Through the Decades: The 1970s

The 1970s marked the era in which the PADI organization gained its tremendous momentum

blog.padi.com

 

[DunningKruger]

How did the ascent look like? Was it one of those drift dives when the guide shoots the sausage and everyone ascends together around him/her?

Exactly that.

The challenge with that dive is that we are all on the bottom of this canyon out of the current. If ascend the least little bit your are immediately in the current and off to the races.

Appreciate the feedback.

 

[therookie]

Well there you go. That would be a sport!!

Could even be an Olympic sport. Summer and, for a shockingly high percentage of SB users (at least according to another recent thread on coldwater diving), Winter Olympics too

 

[boulderjohn]

Thanks for the explanations of the training. I had not understood that was what you were talking about. I thought you were talking about the old (and false) idea that PADI had divided the old OW program into OW and AOW.

There was pretty much no difference in the skills portions of the dives. some of what was changed was some of the academic stuff that was not really necessary for diving. For example, you do need to know how pressure effects the body under water, but do you really need to be able to identify by name Boyle's Law, Henry's Law, and Dalton's Law to be an OW diver?

PADI's other big change was the move to a system inspired by Benjamin Bloom's Mastery Learning process. That is now how pretty much all scuba is taught everywhere. There are some people who still don't understand the process, some of whom are very active on ScubaBoard, but it is still the way people learn to dive today.

 

[The Chairman]

Comments and criticisms encouraged.

A lot of that depends on the PDC you're using. Suunto and some others are brutal in how conservative they are.

On a personal note, I finished the dive portion of becoming a RAID instructor today. This was the first time I did a crossover and had to do demonstrate skills. How refreshing. Everything was done mid-water, Mask replace, no mask swim, OOA, and even R&R of my BCD. I started at 12 ft and finished at @ 13 ft.

 

[Belzelbub]

Do people here think that maybe if divers had to be more personally involved with diving, instead if just wanting to experience it without any of the annoying details, they might commit more to becoming more serious about the hobby in the long term?

For sure. It will also be a barrier to entry. Whether that is a good thing or bad is up for debate.

In reading through this thread, I do think there might be a need for the experience type of diving. It’s not for me, but I guess it might be for others. I guess this might be a valid reason why the Scuba Diver (or Discover Scuba) courses exist. If all the person is after is an experience led by a DM, then I guess this could be done reasonably safely by conservatively planning the dives.

Not for me. If you go the OW route, you should be able to dive without a DM controlling the dive. If not, then your instructor did you a disservice.

If dive ops want to offer this type of dive, it ought to be done in such a way that that it does not interfere with divers that are a bit more capable. I wouldn’t want to go on a charter and have my dives limited by the least experienced.

 

[The Chairman]

I wouldn’t want to go on a charter and have my dives limited by the least experienced.

There are limits, and then there are limits. Before OW, you're 'limited' to 60FSW. Hell, that's where most of the pretty fish live. Maybe these new divers are exceeding your limits of patience? You got yours, so be patient and compassionate as they dive into their new journey. It is the way.

 

[JuLe]

Is there a video of this event ?

I don't know, I'll see if I can find something. The event was streamed live, so I would expect that something can be found.