Disturbing trend in diving?

[scubadada]

Right now I do just about anything. I have a transportation issue going that far north. My wife and I share one car.

Of course, depends on the wife. My wife does not dive with me in the late fall, winter, or early spring. She is content with riding her bike, including to the beach, or relaxing in our townhouse just north of Boynton, when I drive up to Palm Beach or Jupiter. She will drive me and pick me up from Boynton, only 3 miles, if she wants the car.

You might want to expand your horizons, the diving in SE FL is quite good. I am aware that the dive options south of me have become more limited.

 

[tekkydiver]

So, lately I've seen some things posted that have me raising my eyebrows a bit.
There have been a few stories posted about people relying completely on the divemasters or guides for their bottom times, NDL status, basic dive profiles. This seems to be in Mexico from what I gather but it might include some other locations.
The trend seems to be that these divers in question don't have computers or depth gauges/any kind of timing device and rely 100% on the divemasters to take care of them and keep them safe.
Is this a thing?

In my neck of the woods, or more appropriately ocean.... we dive the 1st reef --- 50 to 60 feet. With 34% nitrox we can stay down an hour and including 3 minute safety stop. Which is about what we get out of one tank. In this situation a computer in isn't really needed. I have a one but only using when diving the 2nd and 3rd reef. In that case it's helpful to keep out of deco

 

[John C. Ratliff]

I read that comment from @Leatherboot69 as a reference to what PADI says in its blog about its history...



Not so much that PADI changed something internally to make it more modular, but basically the difference between the PADI system and what was previously then common training from NAUI, BSAC and others which seems to have been more classroom time, more theory, more "linear" instruction.

All way before my scuba time (and I was still a pre-teen in 1978), and possibly I am misunderstanding either leatherboot's comment or yours - but that was how I took it...

Thank Dennis Graver, my NAUI ITC course supervisor. He did some really revolutionary things with dive instruction. But during our NAUI ITC in1973, he made us do actual mouth-to-mouth artificial respiration on our buddy through 200 yards of surf in California.

SeaRat

 

[John C. Ratliff]

The multiple hurdles of actually doing "real life diving" can be too high, and many don't want to invest the time, effort or money, and are perfectly happy with their warm water holiday dives once a year in rental gear that doesn't require much of them. (some would disagree).

Autonomous dives with your own gear? We'd argue that is a different ballgame.

When I started diving in the late 1950s and early 1960s, we had a different quality of person starting diving. Many of us were on the local swim team, and had already taken the Red Cross Lifesaving and Water Safety course. We were very comfortable in the water, having done practices with the Red Cross course in floating (for 10-15 minutes), long distance swimming, learning to rescue a swimmer (surface dive to his/her knees, turn the person around so as to climb up their back to the surface, reach around and grab under their far arm, and begin swimming them ashore). So we were a different type of person taking up scuba diving; it was far easier for us.

SeaRat

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Do any of you log your dives? I’ve been going over my dive logs from the 1970s and 1980s while writing a book, and they have been invaluable. Mine are written, but in the last 20 years I’ve been logging my dives on a log that I developed that is computerized. But, I’ve lost a few of those files, but haven’t lost my hand-written dive logs. The hand-written ones seem to be less prone to being lost.

SeaRat

 

[dmaziuk]

Do any of you log your dives? I’ve been going over my dive logs from the 1970s and 1980s while writing a book, and they have been invaluable. Mine are written, but in the last 20 years I’ve been logging my dives on a log that I developed that is computerized. But, I’ve lost a few of those files, but haven’t lost my hand-written dive logs. The hand-written ones seem to be less prone to being lost.

I have a computer for that and I push the subsurface log files to a private repo on github for "cloud backup".

The couple of dives in the local lakes here, the briefing included "you may want to leave your computers topside because the bottom is at no-limit depth and the silt may get into sensor openings and mess up your expensive birdix". I wore my cheap Cressi to log the dives. I'd also wear it on the kind of dives that prompted this thread, if I did them, for the same reason: to log the dive.

 

[Diver-Drex]

Do any of you log your dives? I’ve been going over my dive logs from the 1970s and 1980s while writing a book, and they have been invaluable. Mine are written, but in the last 20 years I’ve been logging my dives on a log that I developed that is computerized. But, I’ve lost a few of those files, but haven’t lost my hand-written dive logs. The hand-written ones seem to be less prone to being lost.

SeaRat

I log dives with students and technical dives. I hadn’t logged dives for 20+ years until I decided to DM and needed proof of dives.

 

[The Chairman]

That doesn't work when each group is supposed to have a dive flag.

So, pull your own flag.

 

[NothingClever]

And which part of that is not split into bite-sized chunks with "goals and objectives" up front and a quiz at the end of each chunk, just like the "mastery learning" ordered?

I think breaking down the curriculum into digestible components is just the first step. Execution and objective organizational assessments are where successful outcomes are determined.

From the link @boulderjohn provided (underscoring is mine):

By focusing on the mastery of specific skills and knowledge, this approach aims to ensure that every student reaches their full potential. It prioritizes depth of understanding over simply covering a large amount of material, promoting a more thorough and meaningful learning experience for students.​

By emphasizing the importance of ensuring mastery of prerequisite knowledge, Bloom's work has had a lasting impact on how educators approach teaching and learning. This approach aims to support all students in achieving a deep understanding of the material, rather than simply moving them along at the same pace.​

Historically, competency-based education has evolved from a need to ensure that students are truly proficient in required skills and knowledge.​

In the mastery learning approach, students are expected to achieve a high level of mastery in the specified learning outcomes. This means that they are not just aiming for a passing grade, but rather a deep understanding and proficiency in the subject matter.​

With that out of the way, here are my thoughts.

For me there are three graduated levels of understanding:

1) Familiarization - I've seen something enough to proximally describe it and have enough understanding to attempt to conduct a skill albeit in a rudimentary manner. I may not be able to recall or complete a skill without assistance.​

​

2) Competency - I am familiar enough with the knowledge to accurately describe it although perhaps in a limited manner. I can perform a task adequately although I may lack consistency in repetition and performance of the task may erode under realistic and/or varying conditions.​

​

3) Proficiency - I can skillfully share information with others, routinely use the information to solve actual problems and adapt my knowledge to different applications. I can perform multiple skills on demand without inordinate degradation in performance under a variety of conditions to include challenging ones. Many skill-based instructional organizations require their instructors applicants to first demonstrate proficiency before accepting them as candidates.​

In looking at the first two levels of understanding, do those achieve the mastery learning principles?

I don't think so.

What about the third?

Yes, I definitely think so.

Even if the PADI instructor's guide emphasizes mastery learning, that doesn't seem to manifest in the outcomes. The more dominant manifestation of PADI’s organizational culture isn’t pedagogical expertise, which would be evidenced by legions of skilled divers (and not ones that just survive their dive), but rather the dismal cumulative outcomes (1) showcased in BDI surveys and (2) evidenced by the steady stream of new PADI divers who come to ScubaBoard seeking answers to the training they were expecting.

I recognize that my complaining about PADI isn't going to fix anything. And, in fact, I absolutely LOVE a dive shop and charter operation that is PADI through-and-through and I'm entirely confident I'll find more PADI divers and dive shops that easily earn my effusive praise and promotion. So, I didn't come here to bash PADI or PADI divers.

However, I do feel compelled to speak up when we make an assertion about PADI as an organization inculcating their instruction and instructors with advanced pedagogical concepts. For me, the proof just isn't there.

Advanced marketing concepts? PADI wins hands down. They're like a 1000 mile wide Hoover vacuum cleaner sucking up 1000s of new divers everyday thereby keeping the overall SCUBA industry aloft. From a very personal outlook, I recognize that without PADI cranking out scores of divers who were expecting more, the technical diving community would have a drastically smaller pool from which to draw.

Hopefully you haven't dropped your phone on your face as I put you to sleep with this tome.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Do any of you log your dives? I’ve been going over my dive logs from the 1970s and 1980s while writing a book, and they have been invaluable. Mine are written, but in the last 20 years I’ve been logging my dives on a log that I developed that is computerized. But, I’ve lost a few of those files, but haven’t lost my hand-written dive logs. The hand-written ones seem to be less prone to being lost.

SeaRat

I haven't logged dives in years but I'm thinking of starting back up. Mostly to track our work, track the data of take and info about the volunteers, who was there, shore support, suggestions to improve the operation, and to write data down on the progress we see in the environment. Not so much for exposure protection, weights, mix, NDL, etc.