The Chairman
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The agencies don't seem to promote this. Not any of them.
Dispelling scubaboard myths (Part 1: It is the instructor not the agency)
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The value of the company has nothing to do with what they have done in the past and everything to do with what they can do in the future. 25 million cert cards issued may say something about the future but you cannot divide the company price by that and determine anything. 25 million cert cards being issued per year would be a meaningful divisor and say something about income.
Ayisha
Contributor
I have seen phenomenal instructional skills in the 6 GUE instructors that I have had the pleasure of being taught by and witnessed teaching. Three were my Fundamentals instructors and three were my instructors for skills workshops. As a Montessori teacher, I was really impressed with their teaching skills, and I have seen my fair share of great, mediocre and poor teaching skills in dive instructors of other agencies, not to mention those with varying dive skills.
Each of them used a variety of teaching styles to appeal to various types of learners. Audiovisual, drawings, physical demonstrations, discussion, interaction, physical and concrete demonstrations of abstract concepts. They were highly enthusiastic and inspiring. They quickly learned about people's interests, careers, etc., even analogies with driving a car, and inserted them into problem solving, and I saw students who couldn't quite visualize a process suddenly grasp a solution when it became relevant to them. I've seen this time after time in my own GUE classes/workshops and in ones that I've sat in on. They teach to the individual as they're building a team.
Demonstrations are silent and precise, exactly like the Montessori method, so students can concentrate on a specific sequence of tasks. They demonstrate the various skills on land first so you can get the feel of them as you imitate and you're able to get immediate feedback. They will ask if it's ok to physically show you and manipulate your feet, etc. if they're not quite going the right way on land or in the water. That way, you perceive how it should feel when you perform a skill proficiently, and it's much easier to repeat. They will patiently and watchfully videotape and correct immediately as correct repetition is key.
When it comes time to watch the videos after each session, they ask if everyone's ok with having the videos seen by the small class. They reassure everyone that it's a learning process and we're all here to learn. They have the amazing skill of pinpointing with the video camera, exactly what individual students were having issues with, so students can often figure out solutions themselves. They ask a student what was going on in a particular video clip, and they relay the physics to what can be seen in the clip, leading to a eureka moment for a student. Each student then has something concrete to try on the next dive and see if it works as it should.
I have seen the same types of varied teaching skills used by each of the 6 instructors that I have been taught by to connect with their students and appeal to their individual learning style and pace in working toward an observable outcome. Suffice it to say that I have been very impressed with the instructional skills of the GUE instructors.
diverintheflesh
Contributor
As I mentioned, it's not a direct correlation, however, value is intrinsic and subjective. It's also only worth what someone will pay for it. So in the end, price to stock, price to earnings, and even a company that has tangible assets only has value if a second party says it does. The dollar bill has no real value only that we say it does. Even gold has value because we say it's valuable. Yes, there's not a lot of it on earth, but there is even less of other elements.
I beg to differ about dividing the sale price of the company into the number of certs issued not being relevant. I have very little I can compare and contrast across the board to a company like PADI but I can compare my company's business model and what its value is and the number of certification cards I've issued and correlate a statistical relevance.
When someone says you're comparing apples and oranges, comparatively they are fruit, the contain vitamins and minerals, they each grow on trees, they each can be held in one's hand like a baseball, they both can be juiced into popular beverages, and they each may contain seeds, and so forth...
In the end, my conclusion is that each student that I teach and subsequently issue a certification card to is more valuable to me than PADI's are to them. The dive shop owners I've know say that they might make $50 on a student if they make any. My profit is higher not just because I ask that they pay for the services they get from me, but I price in what my expenses and overhead accordingly. If the dive shop is charging for group classes what i charge for private and individual certification, then that means the dive shop should be charging more, a lot more. And when a dive shop makes little for the effort and risk associated with teaching a diver, it's the just culture that tells them they can't charge what they should be. A dive shop business owner can charge what ever they want. Why does every dive shop follow an industry model of <$50 profit per student? It's PADI's and SSI's business model. I took my business banking experience and when I went into scuba and saw how shops are running themselves into the ground, I didn't follow. Again, all just my opinion and perspective, but the industry is broken and it will only get worse if it doesn't change the way it does business.
Look at the tech industry and education. I paid $600 for advanced Nitrox and Decompression procedures, $2000 to get to advanced trimix, and $2000 for cave training. Those instructors didn't charge any amout above and beyond what the industry is charging. Why do all the agencies and thusly shops put a premium on tech, because both sides value it. Recreational is only valued by the agency side. I'm my case, NAUI granted me the ability to create a program that crates great divers AND i charge what I feel it's worth today. I've raised my prices 3 times since I went independent. I've even changed what is included in that cost. That's not rocket science it's good business.
chrisch
Contributor
I learned to dive long enough ago that video was not an option. I have found this tool to be a very good way to understand what you are doing and correct things you get wrong. It is a feature of GUE training and one that other agencies should take note of. Even at OW level I feel it could have a distinct benefit. You would see poor finning and trim clearly for example.
So perhaps we can widen the debate to say not just the individual instructor but the support team as well? (Sorry to make it worse
)
I learned to dive long enough ago that video was not an option. I have found this tool to be a very good way to understand what you are doing and correct things you get wrong. It is a feature of GUE training and one that other agencies should take note of. Even at OW level I feel it could have a distinct benefit. You would see poor finning and trim clearly for example.
So perhaps we can widen the debate to say not just the individual instructor but the support team as well? (Sorry to make it worse
I've been told that SDI standards don't allow video/stills during training due to liability issues. Whether this is actually true or just one instructor's interpretation, I don't know. Perhaps someone might be able to clarify.
Bobby
Contributor
The agencies job is to set and maintain standards. When a complete OW course is completed in under 2 days there is not enough time to have enough repetition to acquire a reasonable level of understanding. When I worked on day boats in S. FL. it was a daily occurrence to have new divers that couldn't remember how to install their BC, regulator, use their power inflator, etc., etc., etc.. I had the same experiences when I worked on a live aboard dive boat. Far too many people would come on the boat, newly minted from an OW class and have a couple of bad dives due to their lack of knowledge and skills, then sit out the rest of the week drinking and/or hanging out on the boat. Far too many quit the sport before they get an opportunity to enjoy it and I firmly believe it is due to the level of instruction that we have. We don't have to make it like boot camp, however we do need to have enough time for repetition to master basic skills and be able to inject fun into the learning experience. E learning and video are useful tools, however they don't substitute repetition and instructor explanation.
This is a fun sport however it is still a sport that requires life support equipment to survive. The fun comes when divers are taught to a level of competence that gives them the skills to execute dives in a safe manner. Agencies are not maintaining the bar to ensure that this happens, instead they focus on turning out as many divers and instructors as possible.
When I went through my IE I was shocked at the level of incompetence of the divers that made it through. Granted I had a lot of diving and technical diving under my belt when I became an instructor however it was still shocking. When an instructor doesn't have buoyancy and control skills in the water there is no way they can teach it. One of the instructor candidates freaked out because he came off a 20' platform due to the crowding. He bolted to the surface and was allowed to go down with another group to complete his skills demonstration, sure enough he was minted as a new instructor with the rest. The same is true for technical diving instruction today. The focus is on new instructors and students, instead of retention and a solid skills platform to grow from.
I golf and do other activities. It is common for me to meet up with others that I don't know. It is also more common to have someone say that they tried diving and decided it just wasn't for them. I would say less than 1 out of 10 times I find someone that says that they are a current diver as well, I wouldn't be surprised if it was more like 1 out of 20 or more. Those are really bad numbers if a sport is trying to retain customers. I always ask if they were certified and discount the ones that say no they just went through a DSD or such. I also believe if we were doing DSD properly that we would have much better numbers of people continuing on to certification.
I used to work in change management so I have a realistic idea of what it takes for a company, much less an entire field, to change. Realistically the industry likely won't change or improve unless it deteriorates to the point that forces industry wide change. People simply won't take it up or stay with it, which is what I see happening today. Far less 20-35 age people are taking up the sport than they were 10, 15, or 20 years ago. Even less are staying in the sport after a year or two.
This is a fun sport however it is still a sport that requires life support equipment to survive. The fun comes when divers are taught to a level of competence that gives them the skills to execute dives in a safe manner. Agencies are not maintaining the bar to ensure that this happens, instead they focus on turning out as many divers and instructors as possible.
When I went through my IE I was shocked at the level of incompetence of the divers that made it through. Granted I had a lot of diving and technical diving under my belt when I became an instructor however it was still shocking. When an instructor doesn't have buoyancy and control skills in the water there is no way they can teach it. One of the instructor candidates freaked out because he came off a 20' platform due to the crowding. He bolted to the surface and was allowed to go down with another group to complete his skills demonstration, sure enough he was minted as a new instructor with the rest. The same is true for technical diving instruction today. The focus is on new instructors and students, instead of retention and a solid skills platform to grow from.
I golf and do other activities. It is common for me to meet up with others that I don't know. It is also more common to have someone say that they tried diving and decided it just wasn't for them. I would say less than 1 out of 10 times I find someone that says that they are a current diver as well, I wouldn't be surprised if it was more like 1 out of 20 or more. Those are really bad numbers if a sport is trying to retain customers. I always ask if they were certified and discount the ones that say no they just went through a DSD or such. I also believe if we were doing DSD properly that we would have much better numbers of people continuing on to certification.
I used to work in change management so I have a realistic idea of what it takes for a company, much less an entire field, to change. Realistically the industry likely won't change or improve unless it deteriorates to the point that forces industry wide change. People simply won't take it up or stay with it, which is what I see happening today. Far less 20-35 age people are taking up the sport than they were 10, 15, or 20 years ago. Even less are staying in the sport after a year or two.
diverintheflesh
Contributor
There are 2 articles that I use regularly in my classes and when I discuss issues within the dive industry. One is no longer online and I'm not sure how long the other will remain so I have a copy of them backed up with the sources identified. Please read them:
Dive Training Magazine: July 2012 | Editorials: Addressing the Issue of Diver Competence | Text by Alex Brylske
Diver Magazine: January 21, 2014 | Dive Training Today: A Perspective | Text by Bret Gilliam
The biggest problems I see isn't the materials per se or how they are applied, or even the length of the program, but how it's presented.
I require the student to do all self-study first. Then we do an educational review. Then the pool and then open water. Each portion builds upon itself and there is a break between each, even if it's only a day. In particular, 4 or 5 week classes are primarily filled with so much getting together, set up and break down that the student gets only half of the program as intended. I prefer to do the review and pool each in one full day and then the open water weekend as excursions rather than 4 dives over 2 days. This means the student is in and out of the water upwards of 8 times and the experience is more fulfilling. Suffice it to say, the divers are also required to do a fun dive without the instructor after the cert dives are completed. When I look at my process, I would say it resembles the Socratic method but it does not resemble what happens at the local dive shop!
"The Socratic method, also can be known as maieutics, method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate, is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions."
Socratic method - Wikipedia
Dive Training Magazine: July 2012 | Editorials: Addressing the Issue of Diver Competence | Text by Alex Brylske
Diver Magazine: January 21, 2014 | Dive Training Today: A Perspective | Text by Bret Gilliam
The biggest problems I see isn't the materials per se or how they are applied, or even the length of the program, but how it's presented.
I require the student to do all self-study first. Then we do an educational review. Then the pool and then open water. Each portion builds upon itself and there is a break between each, even if it's only a day. In particular, 4 or 5 week classes are primarily filled with so much getting together, set up and break down that the student gets only half of the program as intended. I prefer to do the review and pool each in one full day and then the open water weekend as excursions rather than 4 dives over 2 days. This means the student is in and out of the water upwards of 8 times and the experience is more fulfilling. Suffice it to say, the divers are also required to do a fun dive without the instructor after the cert dives are completed. When I look at my process, I would say it resembles the Socratic method but it does not resemble what happens at the local dive shop!
"The Socratic method, also can be known as maieutics, method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate, is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions."
Socratic method - Wikipedia
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the first time I ever had a DM lead dive was 25 years after certification. I was amazed that divers relied on that person for so many basic things. Gear assembly, pre-dive checks, plan, gas monitoring during the dive, navigation, ...
Sure, a new location, and wanting the opportunity to have things pointed out are really nice, but you have to have some responsibility....
Sadly, we seem to set that expectation of involvement with many instructors. I am in no way saying all, and I have had some really good ones, but i guess I have been fortunate.
The interesting part is that this place (SB) represents a non-typical group as their passion has them involved, even as "internet divers". Those without a care won't spend the bandwidth here as their commitment isn't likely as high.
Preaching to the choir......
Sure, a new location, and wanting the opportunity to have things pointed out are really nice, but you have to have some responsibility....
Sadly, we seem to set that expectation of involvement with many instructors. I am in no way saying all, and I have had some really good ones, but i guess I have been fortunate.
The interesting part is that this place (SB) represents a non-typical group as their passion has them involved, even as "internet divers". Those without a care won't spend the bandwidth here as their commitment isn't likely as high.
Preaching to the choir......
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