Dispelling scubaboard myths (Part 1: It is the instructor not the agency)

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If students know they have been shortchanged, they should report it.

As mentioned earlier, my OW course did not meet standards, but I did not know it at the time. It was only when I became a DM and had to demonstrate all the skills in the OW course that I realized how many I had never done. I went back to my original log book and saw that the skills were listed in the course, and my instructor had signed off that I had done them. I had never looked at that before to see that. The current PADI logbook has far greater details about what needs to be done, and they are in more prominent places. That is only for the OW dives, though--the student is still in the dark about what is actually required in the pool.

John,

I had no idea how bad my OW course was. I had a couple skills skipped, and I wasn't aware, as it was a lot of material and a bit of overload (this was a resort style course). I didn't know any better.

Never once did I receive a QC form from PADI for all the courses I took (OW, AOW, drift, nitrox, deep, S&R, wreck, DPV, ....). Not once.

Now I forgot to look at my original logbook, but I don't think it had the list of skills performed in the training dives like the new ones do today. I could be wrong. I do know some things were skipped in the pool.

As usual, there were pats on my back, told I did a great job, and off I went. I just laugh now at what my course was like, but in reality, it isn't funny.
 
@boulderjohn & @Colliam7 :
Thanks for your thoughts. I deem them all valid. Nothing wrong with them.
I still feel that a survey and the hope that a customer contacts the organisation if more than the usual is wrong as the only means of quality control would be a very poor means of quality control. I am not saying that is the only means of quality control, I am just saying in my mind, that is a poor one.

As a customer, I tend to vote with my feet and try to find a better provider / store / / restaurant / shop / instructor, ... rather then trying to fix the one with the issue... In aggregate it's a means of quality control as well and maybe less aggravating to all involved.

"Fixing people" that's risky, iffy business, best kept to a limit and reserved for spouses, kids, very close friends, employees if they are willing and worth it, bosses if daring ... - imho...
 
don't need more than three days of training, don't need a bottom timer, don't need to be 15 years old, you need a buddy but no instruction on how to be a buddy, don't need nitrox - oh wait - we may be losing out on money so now we do need nitrox, don't need to go slower than 20m/min, don't need to technical dive - oh wait - maybe we do, etc., plenty more can be added if one takes the time. I call this collectively an agency trend.
I read this list about 5 times and can't make sense out of most of it. Are you saying one agency is showing a downward trend through these items? Let's look at a couple that I can recognize to some degree.
  • The annual DEMA workshop banned any presentations on nitrox by anyone from any agency in 1993 on the belief that it was too dangerous. Several agencies were formed for the purpose of teaching nitrox diving. Soon after that, the entire scuba industry realized that it was not that dangerous, and the entire industry changed its thinking. That included PADI. Are you saying that all the other agencies changed for noble reasons, but only PADI changed so it could make more money?
  • PADI teaches that you should have a buddy, and the OW class requires that students work in buddy teams, check each other's gas supplies, etc. In the OW checkout dives, they are supposed to plan and execute the final dive in buddy teams. What more are they supposed to do to teach the buddy system?
  • I have no idea what you are saying about not needing a bottom timer--are you talking about a specific instrument that some people, mostly tech divers use? Why would that be required?
  • The 20m/min ascent rate was created by the Navy in the late 1950s and was the standard for decades, including when PADI created its tables. After that, more recent research has suggested that 30 FPM was better. Computer algorithms now pretty much all use 30 FPM, and PADI says that divers using computers should follow the computer's suggested ascent rate.
  • I don't know what the 15 year old reference means.
  • PADI taught tech through its subsidiary--DSAT--and then moved it out of that body and into the main body. It is still essentially the same course being taught by the same instructors--just a different name on the certification. Please explain the problem--I am missing it.
So you say those all indicate an agency trend, but I have no idea what trend is indicated. Is it changing policies to match the latest research? I am baffled. You will have to explain what is wrong with those items so I can understand the trend.
 
An old discussion of the PADI buddy system caused me to look it up a while back in my old (again, 2005) OW manual. If a couple of things were also mentioned it may be helpful. One is to quote some accident stats proving buddy is better than solo (if that is true). As well, the "insta buddy" on boats could be mentioned. Perhaps that very inexperienced divers should only dive with known good buddies. Perhaps mentioning that a "bad" buddy could be less safe than diving solo. I know it's old stuff, but I think some do get the impression that PADI implies you should never dive solo as it is always less safe. PADI doesn't actually say this, nor do they really say anything about solo at all. I'm not really familiar with the Self Reliant Course (don't think it's taught here yet), but from what I have read on SB, it's meant to make you more self sufficient, not as a substitute for buddy diving--but that's just my impression.
 
This is of direct relevance to the current discussion on PADI and solo diving:

PADI president tackles controversial issue of solo diving

Dated 6 Oct 2017.

And this link shows basically the 'policy paper' by PADI:

Solo Diving: PADI Worldwide's Position

From the link on PADI's position:


As time moves on
Since PADI published the above statement, PADI has deviced a diving specialty intended to teach solo diving. It's know as the Independant Diver Specialty. PADI's original position on solo diving has not changed however. Drew Richardson is currently CEO of PADI.


Uh, Independant [correct spelling Independent] Diver is SSI's course, not PADI's.
 
Thanks Andy. I've seen the "policy paper" before, but can't play the video (I guess no good in Canada?). Can you briefly capsulize it?

Wetb4, So this is a new specialty--Independent Diver Specialty. Differs from Self Reliant Diver? It's a regular specialty I assume, not a "distinctive" one?
 
Wetb4, So this is a new specialty--Independent Diver Specialty. Differs from Self Reliant Diver? It's a regular specialty I assume, not a "distinctive" one?

Solo Diver = SDI
Self Reliant Diver = PADI
Independent Diver = SSI

I have not looked at other agencies to see what they call their version of solo diver. I imagine that SDI was the first.
 
Solo Diver = SDI
Self Reliant Diver = PADI
Independent Diver = SSI

I have not looked at other agencies to see what they call their version of solo diver. I imagine that SDI was the first.

We have drifted a bit off topic here, but this is something of interest to me so apologies for adding to that. In the UK a number of dive centres accept the SDI course and allow you to dive solo in their facilities. However the PADI course is generally not seen as adequate. I am curious as to the difference in the course syllabus between the agencies and whether this is justified? The usual nonsense of "insurance" clouds the subject.
 
[I still feel that a survey and the hope that a customer contacts the organisation if more than the usual is wrong as the only means of quality control would be a very poor means of quality control. I am not saying that is the only means of quality control, I am just saying in my mind, that is a poor one.
I fully agree, that customer surveys have limitations. And, as a management practice, I routinely tell employees that 'hope is not a strategy'. But, apparently, the consumer survey approach does work for many (many, many) organizations, across multiple industries, and the available data in the QA/QC literature, at least that I am aware of, suggests that the results of customer surveys are not infrequently used to improve organizational delivery of a product, and facilitate changes in employee behavior and performance, organizational structure, and corporate business practices, etc. Imperfect as it may be, the system appears to have utility, and genuine appeal to businesses.

But, putting that discussion aside, could you recommend a specific QA/QC approach, that you believe scuba training agencies should routinely employ, that would be objective, informative, efficient, appealing to consumers, and cost-effective? I would be very interested in what options might be pursued.
[As a customer, I tend to vote with my feet and try to find a better provider / store / / restaurant / shop / instructor, ... rather then trying to fix the one with the issue... In aggregate it's a means of quality control as well and maybe less aggravating to all involved.
Unfortunately, it also really does little if anything for quality control. Taking the discussion outside the scuba industry: I have seen this over too many years in medicine, where some patients will go from one practitioner, to another, to another, and to yet another, because they don't like 'something' or are not getting 'something', but they NEVER tell the practitioners what they don't like, or want but are not getting. So, the practitioner never knows a) what s/he could have done differently to meet the needs of that patient who is lost to follow-up, and just disappears, and more important , b) what s/he could do differently to meet the needs of future patients. That kind of walking with your feet is not an effective approach to improving quality, or changing behavior, it is a prescription for chaos and waste, as multiple practitioners attempt to meet a patient's un-articulated needs, without information from the patient or previous providers, and needlessly 're-invent the wheel', and waste time and resources in the process. Those same patients then complain about the health care system failing them, but they have never, ever articulated what they actually need / want to any provider or facility. Fortunately, and unfortunately, that is changing. Patients have substantially less opportunity to choose their providers now, IF they are to take advantage of their insurance coverage. And, part of the reason is the increasing cost of health care delivery resulting in no small part from the chaos and cost-inefficiency of patients 'voting with their feet', instead of 'communicating with their mouth'.

You are free to do what you want . I hope others will help make scuba training better for all of us - students and instructors alike - by helping agencies identify problems in delivery which can be addressed.
 
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