Dishonest LDS ??

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

The disallowing of some class of masks and/or fins is only a problem, IMHO, if the rational behind it is bogus and self-serving. I may not agree with MikeFerrara on what he sees as a deficience of all split fins but at least his rational makes some sense. My home- modified splits are fairly stiff and frog kick as well as my jets. They also do OK turning and backing up.

I would go along with any pair of fins that worked. I haven't seen split fins that would work for those kicks but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Teaching an OW class is kind of a unique situation because a student with the wrong gear can hose up the class. When I owned a dive shop, I had students order gear online. That's ok, but when it didn't show up in time, they wanted me to provide mask and fins even though I stated up front that I don't provide those pieces of gear. I scrounged to find stuff for one guy but he didn't want to rent them...he just wanted to use them. LOL, when I gave him a rental price, he accused me of only being interested in the money and running the place too much like a business...go figure.

I had another guy buy a mask from a department store. It fogged terribly (as any new mask can do) but when he tried to clean it he scratched the plastic lenses up and he still couldn't see. I end up with a student holding up the class because he didn't listen and "miffed" that I wouldn't just give him a "loaner".

I never could figure out why so many people thought they should be able to use my equipment without having to pay for it. I also never quite understood why, after telling someone how to avoid a problem, it should become my problem when they didn't listen.
 
this particular behavior by the LDS sounds just like the NASDS club aquarius marketing hype
if you dont' buy gear (our brands) you are risking your safety maybe the student needed to shop around a bit more
 
I am not a fan of plastic lenses because of the scratching issue. But not all el cheapos have plastic lenses and some rather expensive masks (Scubapro Focus with anti-fog lenses) have plastic lenses.

The issue with a mask should not be price or source. It should be fit/seal and reliability (strap, adjustor, lense retainer, etc.)

I agree. I have trouble finding masks that fit me and none of the really "low volume" masks that are so populear fit. I'm currently using a mask from H2Odyssey that retailed for about $30. I have two of them (One for a backup) and I've been using them for a long time in all sorts of environments. I was a dealer when I got them so I probably have $12 or $15 in each of them.
 
my experience lines up as follows if the mask has high quality silicon skit feels good, suctions on your face when you breath in thru your nose and yr not clenching yr teeth or smiling then worry about color buy it ! black silicon seems to fit better it is softer. the old h2o mask wouldn't be the old ? magnum single lens built in caifornia ? I have used same for years now ..
 
my experience lines up as follows if the mask has high quality silicon skit feels good, suctions on your face when you breath in thru your nose and yr not clenching yr teeth or smiling then worry about color buy it ! black silicon seems to fit better it is softer. the old h2o mask wouldn't be the old ? magnum single lens built in caifornia ? I have used same for years now ..

I'm not sure of the model but they're single lense.
 
Geeze ... why has nobody suggested the use of some of that Polyken® 226 Nuclear Grade duct tape to fix those nasty split fins?
The stuff is keeping half the nuke plants in the US running; it'll do wonders on an old pair of split fins (Assuming no Duck Feet can be found)
 
I never could figure out why so many people thought they should be able to use my equipment without having to pay for it. I also never quite understood why, after telling someone how to avoid a problem, it should become my problem when they didn't listen.
There is a painfully simple solution to that problem - treat the training and gear as separate cost centers, and don't make one dependent on the other. Price the course so that it covers the true costs of delivering the training, and stop using gear sales to make up the difference.

Give the students the option of renting gear for the class, and just build the rental fee into the course fee. If they already have their own gear (or purchase it elsewhere) and don't use yours, then it's more money for you. If they like what they are using and buy identical new gear from you, then it's even more money for you. If they bring in an unsuitable piece of equipment to class, you can tell them why you feel it is not suitable, and offer to swap them out a piece of your rental gear if theirs doesn't work for them. You can do this with a clear conscience and without having to argue over the extra fees, because you have already built that into the course (i.e. more money for you).

You can tell them they are welcome to try whatever rental gear they want, whenever they want, just to see what works best for them. You could even offer to sell them the gear from the course (used) for a substantial discount (but still above your cost) if they like it, which is more money for you. That makes the students feel like they got a good deal on gear that they know they like, and also allows you to turn over your inventory.

Once they finish the confined water work, you could offer to sell them new gear for your standard 10% (or whatever discount), which is more money for you. Alternatively, you could do something like offer a store credit as a "reward" for passing the course - if you restrict the credit so that it can only be used for items where the amount of the credit is less than your markup on the item, then that is more money for you. Your students will no doubt feel much better about these purchases because they have had the opportunity to "try before they buy", and because you have shown yourself to be a customer-oriented store owner who is flexible and accommodating to their needs.

There are many, many creative ways to work a system like, and in such a manner that you do not compromise your principals or violate the terms of your dealer agreements.

It is simply not reasonable to force people to buy their gear from the shop just because they took the course there, and people will often feel "ripped off" if you try and back them into a corner over this issue. Furthermore, the current dynamics of on-line sales are going to make continued hard-line enforcement of such a policy untenable - it is an obvious conflict of interest, and consumers are simply not going to stand for it.

The best way to deal with the "issue" of on-line gear sales is to recognize that they are here, and here to stay, and that the shops are going to have to find new ways to compete with that if they are going to stay in business. Coercing your customers into buying things that they don't need is one way to handle it, but I don't think it's in the long-term best interests of the industry to do that.

Many other retailers are having to find innovative ways to co-exist with on-line sales - why should dive shops be any different?
 
Geeze ... why has nobody suggested the use of some of that Polyken® 226 Nuclear Grade duct tape to fix those nasty split fins?
The stuff is keeping half the nuke plants in the US running; it'll do wonders on an old pair of split fins (Assuming no Duck Feet can be found)
I thought you made up this reference until just for the heck of it, I googled it. Next time someone asks me what tape adheres to ASME NQA-1 (which replaces ANSI 45.2.2!!!) and NRC REG 1.38 certification, I'll have a snappy retort.
As to the duck fins, the new reissues from 360 Inc are rapidly disappearing. I got a pair of XXL and that size seems to have totally vanished. Glad I got in on these while I could.
 
There is a painfully simple solution to that problem - treat the training and gear as separate cost centers, and don't make one dependent on the other. Price the course so that it covers the true costs of delivering the training, and stop using gear sales to make up the difference...deletia...

You're preaching to the choir but I was never able to sell OW classes at anywhere near enough for it to be a stand alone profit center.
 
It's an idea I wish would take hold (split training and gear sales), but you won't last long selling OW classes at $450 when the guy across town sells them for $250 and does the hard gear sell. New students don't know enough to know the difference. You stuck like the airlines - your price flexibility is limited by your dumbest competitor.

Rich
 

Back
Top Bottom