Discover scuba from hell

[rcohn]

We did a two tank dive with them about six years ago when my wife was new to scuba and quite nervous. They are a very good choice for the inexperienced or divers in need of a refresher (all other divers should go elsewhere). She enjoyed the dive and it gave her increased confidence.

The day we were out, we had one group of 4 certified divers (included the two of us), one group of 4 divers doing their BOW checkout dives, and groups of Japanese rotating through for their scuba experience. The divemasters/instructors I saw were very competent and all happened to be Caucasian with some speaking Japanese. The instructor who led us was a former commercial diver who had switched to recreational instruction.

It was amazing to watch the Japanese groups rotate through. I didn’t witness any divers being restrained but the instructors did keep a constant grip on their arms throughout the dives. It certainly wasn’t my idea of the best way to initiate someone into diving, but the instructors did seem to be keeping firm control of each diver.

Ralph

 

[MikeFerrara]

That is the whole idea, a shallow enjoyable experience that shows non divers what diving is all about.

Being dragged around with some one taking care of you? Maybe that is what lots of diving is about. I just don't like it.

Dispelling myths like diving is dangerous

Sometimes it is and since you rely on life support equipment it always has the potential to be.

diving is difficult

It can be difficult especially if you do it before learning how.

gurls cant do it, it is deep dark and cold

Girls can do it just fine but the diving over a large part of the globe is cold and dark

sharks are evil

No not evil certainly but some sharks just aren't the cudly creatures that the tourist trade sometimes makes them out to be.

 

[simbrooks]

Well, I guess specifically, I was just trying to figure out how you had reached your conclusion that the instructors were non-diving idiots, or whatever you wrote. I read the thread from the first post, but was unable to find any information about the classroom or pool sessions because I guess the guy wasn't doing the dicover course, we was just doing a boat dive on the same boat as the discover group. So I couldn't tell if they were keeping paniced divers from popping up by holding them down or what. I guess also I wondered if maybe its the whole discover program that you were talking about, since you said that you wouldn't teach it because it doesn't cover bouyancy control, and that they were non-diving idiots just for teaching it. Now that you throw the whole standards violation thing in there you've really lost me.

My apologies Kev, i thought you were being sarcastic to Mike in your previous post regarding your question. From reading his original comments i thought you just missed putting the on the end for him, i thought you were joking as i have seen you do before - and lmao most of the time! I stand corrected.

I am not sure who i would suggest to be put thru on this kind of discovery scuba course without really any actual training beforehand. I understand that many found diving this way, i found it from watching divers go out and seeing videos of them on tv. The course wasnt all that expensive so i wasnt really going to lose anything by taking a "full" OW class.

 

[Mako Mark]

It was amazing to watch the Japanese groups rotate through.


Ralph

I love teaching Japanese divers, they have this very strong facade of homogenaity that is deceptive, once you break through this natural reserve they have for not standing out from the crowd, they are a bizzare and quirky culture.

They love diving too, one thing I learned is if you bring coloured pencils along on the dive trip, the Japanese girls (mostly) will turn their log books into fabulous works of art.

I have found that they love doing things in groups too, which is why when we cringe at the sight of ten divers in one group, they often prefer it that way.

We have to remember this as divers, I dont think there is another activity in the world tht draws such a diverse and varied set of participants from all socioeconimic groups, cultures, ages and backgrounds.

That is part of the fun. Some times I like to sit and talk to resort divers after their first dive, and they get me all excited about a dive site that would probably bore me to tears if I was to dive it myself. It reminds me why I do this myself.

 

[Scubakevdm]

That is part of the fun. Some times I like to sit and talk to resort divers after their first dive, and they get me all excited about a dive site that would probably bore me to tears if I was to dive it myself. It reminds me why I do this myself.

I know what you mean, I love that about my job too. Kinda keeps my perspective fresh.

 

[Scubaguy62]

People should not be allowed to dive without certification under any circumstances.

I disagree. Maybe out of sheer luck, but I did a PADI resort course at Sandal's St. Lucia on August of 1997, and much like what Mike mentioned, the course was not a "20 minute brief" and jump in. We actually spent 4 hours in the pool, learning and practicing all the techinques of how to clear the reg, recover the reg, clear a partially flooded mask, and even remove and replace the mask. We learned how to assemble the scuba unit, did some swimming underwater, and learned the VERY BASICS of neutral buoyancy. In the pool, and later in open water, there were 6 students, 1 instructor and 2 DM's.

That afternoon we did our dive; 35 mins at 35 fsw. I was hooked from the second I stapped on the gear in the pool. I only regret that I didn't get my C card when I got back home, but waited 4 yrs after the fact to do it. :06: :06:

Semper Safe,

Rick

 

[Scubakevdm]

I am not sure who i would suggest to be put thru on this kind of discovery scuba course without really any actual training beforehand.

The point I was trying to make was that really, we don't know whether they were given any actual training or not. The guy went on a charter, he was already certified, and so he showed up at the boat and sees the tourists and instructors practicing mask clearing and equalization if I recall correctly. We don't know if the students have been in the classroom and the pool all morning, or if they just showed up to the boat and got thrown into the water. We do know that it was the guy's first boat dive, so maybe his perceptions may be a little off, especially if they call for conclusions to be drawn. We also know that this is a dive operation doing business in the US, and while this certainly doesn't mean that they are safety conscious or reputable or whatever, it does sorta temper the picture of screaming Japanese tourists being tackled into the Pacific Ocean by scuba instructors that was running through my mind. Godzilla!!!
Anyway, the Discover program operates on the premise that there are a few critical skills that a diver can only do for themselves, like equalizing and mask clearing and breathing from a reg. and the remainder can be handled by an instructor who essentially does the dive for the discover person. That's why they don't have to know anything, the instructor knows it for them, that's why they don't learn bouyancy control, the instructor controls it for them, and incidentaly, that's why they can't dive without an instructor.
I think that the number of folks around who talk about having good experiences with discover says something. For alot of people, a discover experience is the only scuba they will ever know, you know? They don't live someplace that is interesting to them for diving, or they can't afford it, or whatever. For other folks its the door into diving... maybe they never would have gotten involved without that initial resort course, but they did the discover dive and they were hooked. I think that anything that makes diving more accessible generally is good, and I think that the discover course is safe if you follow the rules.
BTW thanks for moderating Simbrooks. It shows that you're a nice guy. Next time you're down here stick your head in the door.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Anyway, the Discover program operates on the premise that there are a few critical skills that a diver can only do for themselves, like equalizing and mask clearing and breathing from a reg. and the remainder can be handled by an instructor who essentially does the dive for the discover person. That's why they don't have to know anything, the instructor knows it for them, that's why they don't learn bouyancy control, the instructor controls it for them, and incidentaly, that's why they can't dive without an instructor.

Yep, That's the idea. A total trust me dive and I wouldn't want to be in that situation for all the money in the world.

I think that the number of folks around who talk about having good experiences with discover says something.

In the 4 years that I owned a dive shop in Indiana I of course met lots of people who were introduced to diving this way when they were on vacation. The one issue that came up in a large percentage of cases was that they were concerned about diving again because of the pain and in a few cases injury that they suffered to their ears. Many of them did these dives without ever equalizing.

After some years teaching, I sure don't agree with counting the Discover Scubadiving dive as OW dive 1 which is what PADI wants you to do. My students have to do a minimum of 4 dives on which they are diving...not me diving for them.

 

[rcohn]

The point I was trying to make was that really, we don't know whether they were given any actual training or not. The guy went on a charter, he was already certified, and so he showed up at the boat and sees the tourists and instructors practicing mask clearing and equalization if I recall correctly.

I've been on that boat and the groups were not given what we would consider training. I'm talking about the three activity package deal folks, not the traditional students, of course. They are run around three activities by an inflatable for a jet ski ride, a parasail, and a scuba dive. Preparation is brief.

Ralph

 

[grazie42]

After some years teaching, I sure don't agree with counting the Discover Scubadiving dive as OW dive 1 which is what PADI wants you to do. My students have to do a minimum of 4 dives on which they are diving...not me diving for them.

A bit off-topic but did anyone ever really go into your shop and say: "I´d like to pay fullprice for an OW course but could we please dive as little/less than possible for the same price?!

This has always baffled me about the PADI system, why do thet have this "option"? I´d never accept getting fewer dives then prescribed for any given course and I don´t understan why anyone else would want to do fewer dives then possible when the price is the same?!

Maybe you proffesionals out there could give me/us an idea of how common it is to "skip" dives after requests from students?