Wyno
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This is why a lot of people are turned off by DIR.
DIR, WKPP, GUE, and Halcyon Part 1 of 3
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This is why a lot of people are turned off by DIR.
cornfed
Mindless lemming
LOL! How ironic. You don't get it, do you?
And as the saying goes, there's more than 1 way to skin a cat. Yes your method apparently made the dive a success but its arrogance bordering on stupidity to claim that ONLY your way could possibly have resulted in that.
Its the typical GUE/DIR "We're right, everyone else is wrong" attitude coming out again.
GUE/DIR did not invent decompression theory, there are several models out there all of which are purely based on statistics and although im not PADI trained i cant for one minute believe they state "Use our tables and nothing else or they'll die"
Just like DIR, other divers can and do cut their own tables using whatever model they prefer and follow those.
Again, there is more than one way of doing it.
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A pity you couldn't have imparted some of your technique and wisdom to some of our DIR locals here. I'm part of a team of divers who work on a regular basis with the Seattle Parks and Recreation Dept, local fishermen, Argosy Cruises, and King County to manage the use of one of the Seattle area's most popular dive sites. We have to share the park with a working water taxi and a very active fishing community ... and that takes coordination and effort.
A few months back a general announcement went out over several of the area's local diving boards for help to maintain the boundary cable that separates the dive site from the water taxi lane and fishing pier. Many dive clubs, LDS, and diving individuals responded with donations of time and materials. Conspicuously absent (although they are there diving virtually every day) was any presence by the local DIR divers. No big whoop ... this is volunteer work, and we only want you if you want to be there. We cleared roughly 1,200 meters of cable of barnacles and other marine growth, and installed several dozen cinder blocks and about 200 bright orange juice jugs as floats to keep the cable suspended several inches above the silty bottom and make it visible to divers. We also installed two rope trails to the more popular dive destinations within the park to reduce the possibility for divers to cross into the prohibited zone. The effort took three months and about three dozen dives. Most of the DIR community looked on with interest ... but some openly criticized us for laying down rope trails ... they said we should instead be "teaching our people how to use a compass".
OK ... I can live with that ... even the criticizing part ... although we do teach our divers how to use a compass.
So, two weeks ago I noticed bubbles coming up inside the water taxi lane (restricted to diving, hence the purpose of the boundary cable). When the DIR class came in, I mentioned discreetly that the water taxi had passed overhead, and that they were in a restricted area ... they should be taking their class south instead of north from the cable. This exchange went discreetly from me to one of the instructors ... no criticism or judgements involved. It also went unheeded.
The next day, the class surfaced directly in front of the oncoming water taxi. Had the taxi not seen the bubbles and stopped just before heads started breaking the surface, y'all would've been reading about casualties.
A few days prior to this, another DIR team (including one who posts on this board) surfaced beneath the fishing pier ... another spot restricted to diving ... and 150 feet inside the boundary cable.
So I have to wonder ... do these folks not know how to use a compass?
These are the same people who criticize us all the time, and tell us what "elite" divers they are. The day of the water taxi incident I spent the entire day with my class next to theirs, listening to some of them critique every diver who came down the beach who wasn't DIR. I watched as one guy laughed at a woman who's husband was checking her tank valve (his quote, in a voice loud enough for her to hear "if you learned with us, you'd know how to check your own valve"). Sorry, but there's just no excuse for that kind of behavior. I tried being sociable, and while some were, others made it a point to look right though me and turn away to talk to their buddies like I wasn't even there. Their point, I guess, is that I'm not worth talking to.
Now, here's where I say that no matter how good these guys are or what I think I might learn from them, I will not countenance this kind of behavior by being a part of any class of theirs. Their actions on this day may yet cost us use of this particular dive site. They refused to listen to me because I was not DIR ... even though I'm one of only four divers in the area who works regularly to keep this site open to ALL divers.
The moral of the story ... even DIR divers might be able to learn a little something if only they'd approach it with an open mind.
BTW - and I want to be clear here. The story above ... and the things that most non-DIR divers object to with respect to attitudes and behavior ... really only apply to a tiny minority of DIR-trained divers. The VAST majority that I've met are great people and make wonderful dive buddies. Unfortunately, the few "bad attitude" types are by far the most noticeable ... and it is they who give the whole movement a bad name. But it's the exclusivity that JJ mentioned in the original post in this thread that attracts these types ... and I do believe it's part of the culture that comes "from the top down", as CC so eloquently put it.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
A topic near and dear to my heart is the fact that the rotten apple is the most noticeable in the barrel. I would like to think that the DIR instructors do NOT teach their students to behave in the manner that Bob refers to. I doubt that they do as it is difficult to dive safely without an open mind.
The problem from everybody's perspective is the fact that the arrogance that drips from many of the posts on this board and the laughing at and critique of divers that do not do things other than "the approved DIR manner" is what is most visible.
There are many days when I avoid reading many posts on this board. Many times I feel as if I see another post about how all the other agencies are "criminal" in their neglect and any set-up other than DIR is "stroke" or (other words that I prefer not to use on a family board), I WILL say something that will show my bad side.
The bottom line is that everybody has a right to dive the way that they choose to. I will not laugh and point fingers at those who think differently unless they choose to insult me. But, in return, I don't expect to hear snide comments when I wear two different set-ups as I did the weekend before last. I don't expect to be judged for choosing to dive my limits and picking the parts of everybody's program that best keeps ME safe.
I have seen some of the more moderate DIR divers on this board. It goes without saying that I respect their opinions a bit more than the "hard-core" variety who appear to be convinced that the rest of us are unworthy of their time and that our opinions don't count.
We are all divers, regardless of agency affiliation. The bulk of us would not be posting on this board if we weren't. We wouldn't be asking questions or answering questions if we didn't care about diving. It would do well for all of us to remember that.
The problem from everybody's perspective is the fact that the arrogance that drips from many of the posts on this board and the laughing at and critique of divers that do not do things other than "the approved DIR manner" is what is most visible.
There are many days when I avoid reading many posts on this board. Many times I feel as if I see another post about how all the other agencies are "criminal" in their neglect and any set-up other than DIR is "stroke" or (other words that I prefer not to use on a family board), I WILL say something that will show my bad side.
The bottom line is that everybody has a right to dive the way that they choose to. I will not laugh and point fingers at those who think differently unless they choose to insult me. But, in return, I don't expect to hear snide comments when I wear two different set-ups as I did the weekend before last. I don't expect to be judged for choosing to dive my limits and picking the parts of everybody's program that best keeps ME safe.
I have seen some of the more moderate DIR divers on this board. It goes without saying that I respect their opinions a bit more than the "hard-core" variety who appear to be convinced that the rest of us are unworthy of their time and that our opinions don't count.
We are all divers, regardless of agency affiliation. The bulk of us would not be posting on this board if we weren't. We wouldn't be asking questions or answering questions if we didn't care about diving. It would do well for all of us to remember that.
I was in a dive shop a week or two ago and wore a GUE shirt. I had the unpleasant experience of listening to 4-5 rebreather guys and instructors go back and forth about "the n@zis" and this and that and was even told at one point that I should "throw my GUE card in the trash".
Just remember that this "dripping arrogance" and general a-hole behavior comes from the "other" side as well and just makes the problem worse. You know, those in glass houses and so forth..
Just remember that this "dripping arrogance" and general a-hole behavior comes from the "other" side as well and just makes the problem worse. You know, those in glass houses and so forth..
After the factless and vitriolic attacks on certain rebreathers by the demented GI3 its not really a surprise that rebreather divers take a low view on the DIR brigade though is it. Again, the root cause is him mouthing off seemingly with the intention to deliberately inflame and offend. It creates enemies.
So because GI3 attacks rebreather guys on the Internet, that gives them the right to pass it down and be a-holes to me in person? No way, dude. Someone has to break the cycle. If we buy into your reasoning, everyone in the world gets to be $hitty to everyone else just because someone down the line was $hitty to them previously...that sounds like a vicious cycle and I want no part of it.
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O-Ring ... you are correct ...
Bad behavior begets bad behavior ... Newton's Third Law applies to human nature as much as it does the physical world we live in. People are too quick to forget that diving is a recreational activity ... we're supposed to be having fun.
For the record ... no matter which direction it flows, that kind of behavior will cause me to walk out of a shop having already determined that I don't need to come back.
We're all divers ... it'd be a lot better for everybody if we acted on that premise. If you have to critique someone, do it on the basis of their actions, not their certifying agency. And if you do so constructively (and perhaps with a bit of discretion), you might actually make a difference instead of an enemy.
That should apply to divers on both sides of this issue.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Bad behavior begets bad behavior ... Newton's Third Law applies to human nature as much as it does the physical world we live in. People are too quick to forget that diving is a recreational activity ... we're supposed to be having fun.
For the record ... no matter which direction it flows, that kind of behavior will cause me to walk out of a shop having already determined that I don't need to come back.
We're all divers ... it'd be a lot better for everybody if we acted on that premise. If you have to critique someone, do it on the basis of their actions, not their certifying agency. And if you do so constructively (and perhaps with a bit of discretion), you might actually make a difference instead of an enemy.
That should apply to divers on both sides of this issue.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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