Cute. A BA in Pop Music? Puleeeze!
I'll see your BA and raise you a Bachelor and Masters degree from the Juilliard School. Now THAT'S DIR.Neil
DIR, WKPP, GUE, and Halcyon Part 1 of 3
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Cute. A BA in Pop Music? Puleeeze!
I'll see your BA and raise you a Bachelor and Masters degree from the Juilliard School. Now THAT'S DIR.Neil
SimonN
Guest
neil once bubbled...
Cute. A BA in Pop Music? Puleeeze!
Neil
Bugga. Hmm... fold? (Quick before I lose my shorts, my mate was on a boat with some Juilliard boys and old me all about them
)How beneficial is it to us, the recreational divers who just love to see some pretty corals and nice fishy fishy.
Oh and how much is it?
Is the certification officially recognised? Can I go to my local naval diving unit and say I am DIR, thus I am better then most? (And get laughed at?)
Dont tell me that I need to practise what I learned to be good. Because, you need to be really good at it to pass, right? Else it is just another so called "PADI" cert?
Not flame, just really curious and BTW, the website dont say anything at all.
So what is the big fuss about nothing at all?
Oh and how much is it?
Is the certification officially recognised? Can I go to my local naval diving unit and say I am DIR, thus I am better then most? (And get laughed at?)
Dont tell me that I need to practise what I learned to be good. Because, you need to be really good at it to pass, right? Else it is just another so called "PADI" cert?
Not flame, just really curious and BTW, the website dont say anything at all.
So what is the big fuss about nothing at all?
SimonN
Guest
Hmmm... don't really know how to answer this. All I can say is if you are at all interested in improving your diving technique then it is invaluable.
Don't know, but cheaper than Oz as you have a local instructor (Guideon Liew), something we do not have.
http://www.livingseas.com.sg/home.html
Don't know and don't care as I have enough cert cards (except cave) anyway.
Military and commercial diving are a completely different kettle of fish to recreational diving so being a scooby doo diver you will get laughed at anyway.
Quote from Andrew Georgitsis
"The only way you can fail fundamentals is to panic and bolt to the surface at any time"
The fundamentals is there to show you what to practice.
What people object to isn't their knowledge and experience. Many divers who are not DIR have paid attention to the message through all the sociopathic chest thumping and macho posturing and managed to learn something anyway. The "bellyaching" is a healthy objection to the arrogance and verbal abuse.
Case in point. You made a short dive in a mud pit and made it into something specatcular in your mind. How did the viz get so bad, btw? Someone churning up the bottom I would guess.
I'll give you something to think about. Yesterday I made 2 dives.
The first one was just a bimble from an hour and a half looking for something in shallow water (30-40 ft), which we found, despite 2-3 metre visibility. But you would have found our second dive dive higly impressive, I would think. A while ago we (me and two friends, all DM's) found a large pit in what is otherwise a shallow bottom that goes off to about 40-45 metres. We've have been diving there a few times to practice navigating in the pit and to explore the unusually heavy concentration of life. The entire pit is beautifully covered in huge oysters with a vast array of the "usual suspects". Our idea is to take experienced divers there for nitrox practice in order to prepare them for conditions similar to what you get wreck diving in the North Sea (the oysters even make a nice simulation of the sharp edges on our wrecks...
. Yestedays dive was a 50 minute venture into the pitch black coldness of the pit to a depth of about 90 ft. We followed it around for about 20 minutes and ascended slightly to get more bottom time. By then the tide had changed and it was blowing billows of sand into the pit from the nearby beach area. Visibility was reduced to the point that I couldn't see fin tips but my Buddy's lights were still visible. All communication went through light signals which we've worked out through experience diving in these kinds of conditions. Furthermore, because of the tide change a current was ripping across the pit we were in and we needed to keep moving left and right and zig-zagging our way from the one protective out-cropping to the next to get any protection from the current. Left and right left and right ducking here, resting there all the way up from 90 ft. Eventually after searching for a bit I found a nice place to make a safety stop. We did 5 minutes of hanging neutral and horizontal at our exact safety stop depth (a little known skill exclusive to PADI divers) and after the safety stop we swam up and a bit around the corner and came out at exactly the same rock were we had started out descent nearly an hour before. For our type of diving this a pretty normal dive. Even the acuracy of our navigation wasn't surprising. Nothing about this dive stressed us out at all. Our air consumption was normal, our communication was good, our contact was good, our navigation was good we planned our dive we dove our plan and we had loads of fun. Or to put it in your words "We resolved the problems and exited safely and with purpose as a complete team".
Without GI barking obscenities at us
Without wishing that JJ were there to empart his experience
without driving 900km
without churning up the bottom
And without our training and experience brought to us "top down".
And don't get me wrong. I'm not and never will be anything of a diving legend and I'm 10,000% sure that JJ is and always will be a better diver than I am. I'm not trying to make this comparison, I'm just trying to get you to understand that there are many many divers making reasonably interesting dives without batting an eye about it and without becoming all arrogant and self satisfied about it.
Think about that the next time you feel inclined to post a chortling self-congratulatory DIR war-story. By all means tell us about your diving, but keep in mind that the only-a-DIR-diver-could-do-this innuendo sounds pompous and makes us snicker.
R..
You know, I liked reading the dive report from our friends in the Netherlands. (Except the part about holding safety stop depth being exclusive to PADI divers, LOL. I would like to think that R. was just making a point about how attitude turns people off. )
That crystallized (stealing Vixen's term) my thoughts on why I will defend the diving skills taught by DIR and their right to dive the way that they do without criticism from many of us, I will not bring myself to invest in learning how to dive that way. If I wanted to hear about how it is a miracle that all other divers survive challenging dives because that are not trained by the gurus, I would have been in better shape and gone to Navy dive school. I chose to learn at the RECREATIONAL level and am happy with that decision.
My instructors give me the knowledge without the history of their program and telling me how great they are and how I should be dead by now. If someone tried telling me after years of my diving to 200 ft (which I don't do yet. Give it a few years for the tri-mix cert.) that I don't have the skills to do deep diving, I would probably take it as an insult as well. I wasn't there to hear it, but if I am around the families of students, many times the parents or SO's are more experienced than I am. They will sit in the class and not interfere with what the instructor is saying as that is "our way" and they respect that. In return, we don't criticize "their way" of doing it (after all they are just observing there loved one's class to make sure that they are safe). Even without these observers present, we do not put down other stores or other diving styles.
There are divers I choose not to dive with. The main reason is that I do not believe in deep air. If they want to dive air below 130ish then they can find other buddies, as I am not comfortable diving narced. But they have done it for years, I will not pretend to be qualified to make their diving decisions for them. I will dive with them any other time.
Oh by the way, if the visibility is bad enough that I can barely see a gauge (which it was the last weekend that I was at the quarry), unless I have the right buddy, I will probably stay shallow and call a dive. The last weekend, I was fortunate enough to have a non-regular buddy. She was fascinated by the way things looked in low vis conditions and swam slow. We stayed in sight of each other and came up together right on top of the exit ladders. It was an experience seeing someone who loves that type of diving instead of simply tolerates it. Great diving (we did two dives), even though we had slightly different styles, we were both safe and shared a love of diving.
In my mind that is what it is all about, DIR or not.
)That crystallized (stealing Vixen's term) my thoughts on why I will defend the diving skills taught by DIR and their right to dive the way that they do without criticism from many of us, I will not bring myself to invest in learning how to dive that way. If I wanted to hear about how it is a miracle that all other divers survive challenging dives because that are not trained by the gurus, I would have been in better shape and gone to Navy dive school. I chose to learn at the RECREATIONAL level and am happy with that decision.
My instructors give me the knowledge without the history of their program and telling me how great they are and how I should be dead by now. If someone tried telling me after years of my diving to 200 ft (which I don't do yet. Give it a few years for the tri-mix cert.) that I don't have the skills to do deep diving, I would probably take it as an insult as well. I wasn't there to hear it, but if I am around the families of students, many times the parents or SO's are more experienced than I am. They will sit in the class and not interfere with what the instructor is saying as that is "our way" and they respect that. In return, we don't criticize "their way" of doing it (after all they are just observing there loved one's class to make sure that they are safe). Even without these observers present, we do not put down other stores or other diving styles.
There are divers I choose not to dive with. The main reason is that I do not believe in deep air. If they want to dive air below 130ish then they can find other buddies, as I am not comfortable diving narced. But they have done it for years, I will not pretend to be qualified to make their diving decisions for them. I will dive with them any other time.
Oh by the way, if the visibility is bad enough that I can barely see a gauge (which it was the last weekend that I was at the quarry), unless I have the right buddy, I will probably stay shallow and call a dive. The last weekend, I was fortunate enough to have a non-regular buddy. She was fascinated by the way things looked in low vis conditions and swam slow. We stayed in sight of each other and came up together right on top of the exit ladders. It was an experience seeing someone who loves that type of diving instead of simply tolerates it. Great diving (we did two dives), even though we had slightly different styles, we were both safe and shared a love of diving.
In my mind that is what it is all about, DIR or not.
have agreed to divulge more of what makes them tick. Neither will do it in this thread... they will start new threads with appropriate titles.
I must point out that the civility shown in this thread really amazes me... very little name calling and some very healthy dialogue. The only thread that crossed the line was deleted for entirely different reasons (yes, I finally read it). I must say that after the "Instructor to Instructor" and "Management" forums, I check this one first.
Oh, and Diver0001... "snicker" :tease:
I must point out that the civility shown in this thread really amazes me... very little name calling and some very healthy dialogue. The only thread that crossed the line was deleted for entirely different reasons (yes, I finally read it). I must say that after the "Instructor to Instructor" and "Management" forums, I check this one first.
Oh, and Diver0001... "snicker" :tease:
Col.Cluster
Guest
QUOTE] Diver0001 without being in the wat... [/i]
quote:
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Diver0001 without being in the water with us came to this conculsion "Case in point. You made a short dive in a mud pit and made it into something specatcular in your mind. How did the viz get so bad, btw? Someone churning up the bottom I would guess. "
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[/QUOTE]
Like Tom said,
You did not see the wall until you found it, which happened to be when I ran into it head first. It took skill experience and training to keep the team together and back out of (fin backwards not turning around trashing it more) the area and take up station in a clear area of 2 to 3 ft vis over towards the other side of the hole.
Diver0001
you are correct we did make a short dive in a mud pit. We volunteered to aid a First Nations Band of the Algonquin to locate an object that was leaking contaminates into one of their prime fisheries and spawning grounds. They had two other expeditions (of your caliber) at the river before we got the call. Both trips failed to locate the offending item. Therefore the mud pit was big enough hide an object the size of three oil drums. We accomplished in 22 mins what your fellows trained divers could not with more then 90 mins in the water. Each of their trips were aborted because of the fining techniques taught by your fellow dive members. You have no idea of what zero vis is until you have reached a point were you cannot see lights or anything else. I freely admit that it is one of the most disorienting experiences I have come encounter; yet we successfully accomplished our objective safely. We spent the rest of the day as volunteer laborers. The object was cleared of the spawning bed and taken away for proper disposal.
We had better things planned for the dive day. We were supposed to head out and moor 2 or 3 of the wrecks recently located by the team at http://northerntechdiver.com and photograph the sites. Instead, we dropped everything and went to the aid of some very concerned people. I found the latter to be a much more rewarding endeavor.
Dude, for your own information we do not subscribe to your exclusively PADI bend and treat for 5 mins at 15ft. We ascend slowly and correctly in an exclusively DIR fashion. The bellyaching is you folks being too quick to shot the messenger and in the process you shot yourselves in the foot at the same time.
All the best
CC
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Diver0001 without being in the water with us came to this conculsion "Case in point. You made a short dive in a mud pit and made it into something specatcular in your mind. How did the viz get so bad, btw? Someone churning up the bottom I would guess. "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/QUOTE]
Like Tom said,
You did not see the wall until you found it, which happened to be when I ran into it head first. It took skill experience and training to keep the team together and back out of (fin backwards not turning around trashing it more) the area and take up station in a clear area of 2 to 3 ft vis over towards the other side of the hole.
Diver0001
you are correct we did make a short dive in a mud pit. We volunteered to aid a First Nations Band of the Algonquin to locate an object that was leaking contaminates into one of their prime fisheries and spawning grounds. They had two other expeditions (of your caliber) at the river before we got the call. Both trips failed to locate the offending item. Therefore the mud pit was big enough hide an object the size of three oil drums. We accomplished in 22 mins what your fellows trained divers could not with more then 90 mins in the water. Each of their trips were aborted because of the fining techniques taught by your fellow dive members. You have no idea of what zero vis is until you have reached a point were you cannot see lights or anything else. I freely admit that it is one of the most disorienting experiences I have come encounter; yet we successfully accomplished our objective safely. We spent the rest of the day as volunteer laborers. The object was cleared of the spawning bed and taken away for proper disposal.
We had better things planned for the dive day. We were supposed to head out and moor 2 or 3 of the wrecks recently located by the team at http://northerntechdiver.com and photograph the sites. Instead, we dropped everything and went to the aid of some very concerned people. I found the latter to be a much more rewarding endeavor.
Dude, for your own information we do not subscribe to your exclusively PADI bend and treat for 5 mins at 15ft. We ascend slowly and correctly in an exclusively DIR fashion. The bellyaching is you folks being too quick to shot the messenger and in the process you shot yourselves in the foot at the same time.
All the best
CC
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