DIR will end my teaching career.

[Butch103]

with many of the replys to this thread....I am not an instructor and I have not taken a DIR/GUE course. But I cannot see why the bouyancy skill cannot be incorporated into the OW classes. Meaning more emphasis on bouyancy. I would assume it would take at least another day to address this skill. The other DIR ideas, such as streamlining should be mainstream in the course teaching. My instructor 4 years ago was anal about being streamlined...eg no danglies........It didn't take any extra time in the course to talk about that. I understand DIR is far more involved than my couple of little examples, but would an extra day working on bouyancy control cost that much more ??

 

[Uncle Pug]

In our GUE Tech class one of the other students was a PADI instructor who had been working for a dive shop in another state. He had been terminated by the shop after taking a DIRf.

I remember the discussion about the problems DIR was creating for instructors who worked for non-DIR shops... I don't want to post the number that had lost their jobs at that point but it was significant.

 

[Butch103]

At the risk of sounding naive (first time for everything), why would the instructors be fired/released/letgo etc ??....Because they wouldn't teach wearing "normal" config setup ? Or because they wanted to incorporate some (if not all ) of the DIR/GUE fundimentals ?

 

[Uncle Pug]

Butch103 once bubbled...
why would the instructors be fired/released/letgo etc

... I could only speculate.

I'll leave that to the others here.

 

[shellbird]

Stephen Ash once bubbled...

Mind you, my open water rig is a simple DIR setup, yet it was unusual to them. My solution…I obtained a Halcyon dealership for the shop. But it seems that the shop does not wish to promote “technical gear” to open water students and I have been asked not to wear my DIR rig when teaching. I believe they still think it’s silly. I don’t mention this to sound petty but to point out how basic the obstacles can be.

…or how about this one:

Our web page features a class for “deep air”.

SA

I found this so interesting... I, from a student standpoint inquired to my LDS, my extended "family", about DIR, if they knew what it was, etc. They called it a marketing ploy and geared toward tech diving. I was a little dissapointed in the apathy. Seemed they knew little and had little desire to investigate into it. Old dogs so to speak??

 

[Uncle Pug]

shellbird once bubbled...
Old dogs so to speak??

...not even lazy dogs.... of course all old dogs are lazy dogs... but perhaps I digress... (and perhaps not.)

I am an old dog and I learned new tricks. Tricks that make my recreational diving much safer and more enjoyable and have also opened up the door for me to venture into technical diving.

No... what you describe is not the characterisics of an old dog... or even a lazy dog... I'm thinking that there is a little wolf in the pedigree.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I had to open up my own shop to be able to teach the way I thought I should. For that matter, I needed my own shop to start to figure it out even. Now I have put myself in a situation where it is very hard to find instructors or DM's. There is no way I could call the local PADI union hall and have them send me staff.

So...Stephen Ash...if you do find yourself wanting to teach in Indiana...

Last night my former cave instructor stoped by. He is also a PADI instructor who has not been very active in recreational instruction for many years. We both started teaching with the same shop. Neither of us was willing to teach that way and went on to other things. He told me of students he refused to certify and by magic they would be certified the following weekend (in one dive) by one of the other instructors (usually the owner). The first class I ever taught was a class of six. In the pool I didn't have any help at all. It was just me and the six students. Also, it was a new pool and the chemestry was off and I had about 5 ft of vis. I was criticized for taking six hours to complete the pool work.

The two best instructors I know have given up teaching for these same reasons. For me and the other instructors I'm talking about it has nothing to do with DIR just teaching good dive skills. It's just that a thourough class takes time, it's alot of work and it cost money. A good class also requires a good staff (not an easy thing to put together).

One of my DM's is in the process of her instructor training now. She has trained and dived with us from the start. She left her 7 ft hose at home and came to grips with the fact that she would demonstrate skills while kneeling on the bottom. However she was not prepared for the magnitude of the skock she received. Her first night she assisted the CD with an OW class (pool). They completed modules 3,4 and 5 in less than two hours. The same thing takes me six hours at least. For those not familiar with the layout of the PADI class, mod 3 and 4 is where neutral buoyant swimming and hovering take place. These students only had minutes to work on these critical skills. I would have to assume there was no attempt to address weight placement of trim.

But lets not forget how the manufacturers encourage and reward this behaviour. It is a volume driven business.

It's also sad that an instructor who teaches a good class has no way to charge for it or market it. When a person goes shoping and compares prices and they see that they can get a PADI card for $99 at one shop or $400 at another shop. Both classes result in the same card but not the same training but they think your screwing them.

 

[dotyj]

Okay, so I'm a newbie here and won't have my first class until tomorrow, but there are some good points being brought up here.

I talked to my perspective instructor before deciding to sign up for my class.

I'm paying quite a bit for one-on-one training, but feel I'm getting the better end of the deal since I won't be in a class with other people who need the instructor's attention.

My instructor is loosing out since he won't be making as much money to train just me as he would to train half a dozen people.

After what I've been reading here I'm happy I picked this particular instructor. He said we'll take as much time as is needed to teach me the skills and techniques I need to know. No rush.

I do wonder if this is due in part to the extra training I'll need to go through to learn to cope with my disability while diving? But at least I'm getting the training time I deserve.

 

[Divesherpa]

divernva once bubbled...
PADI - Golden triangle can never be DIR-ized.

Would you expect an OW student to remove / replace their mask while hovering?

Absolutely!!

What I'm getting at is there are some skills that are simply too demanding. Buoyancy and horizontal trim are one of those.

BS!!

What did we learn in DIR-F that we didn't learn in OW? Nothing. GUE simply stresses certain aspects which are commonly overlooked by OW classes. So if you get a little creative, you can incorporate DIR into OW classes without disturbing the standards.

True

For instance, to help with streamlining, have the students put the BC on without the tank, and "wear" the 1st stage around the neck. Inspect each student and give them tips on securing their consoles and octo. While in the classroom, demonstrate the console dragging over coral.

??

Always be a role model, and spend a little more time stressing certain things during pre/post dive conversations. If they know what to do and what not to do, most will try to improve on the next dive.


K

Diving is learned in the water.
Reinforcement is on the surface.

For someone to say that mask removal and replacement while hovering is too demanding is a slap in the face to an instructor.
If an instructor is teaching students that they only do skills on the bottom then the instructor is breeding very poor quality students. I assume by your statement that this is how you were taught.
In OW, if your mask leaks or floods or gets knocked off or you take it off to make a funny face, do you then drop to the bottom to put it back on?
What's the difference between learning this in a controlled atmosphere under supervision of an instructor and doing it for real on a wreck/reef/whatever?

If the attitude of "too demanding" is the common concensus then it's hopeless. Take up another hobby like baking bread or flying kites.
This stuff is very easy, you simply have to put in more TIME!!!

Cheers and safe diving,
Sherp

 

[shellbird]

I only wish I had read it before taking my OW class at my LDS. I think I wouldn't have been so naive in thinking I had this terrific 8-week course, which I am now finding out was lacking. Bummer...:upset: