DIR Gear Question (Long)

[lastprettyone]

Hello! First, allow me to say what a fantasic resource this board is. I will be taking my NAUI OW course this weekend and next and am signed up for the first available AOW, or what ever the name for that course is in NAUI lingo.

I will be purchasing my own equipment. I spend at least 11 1/2 months out of the year in Wisconsin, so I am planning for cold water diving, with maybe a tropical trip or two here and there. Lake Michigan and its wrecks are right out my front door. The LDS from which I am taking the classes is more inclined toward DIR. The LDS personel have NOT been aggressively pushing DIR by any means, but it is apparent that they like the system.

Will wreck diving lead me into DIR? I know it is a loaded question, and I really am not trying to start anything, but I have two reasons for asking: I do not want to make an investment in equipment that is not up to what I expect to be doing and then have to reinvest too soon afterward, and I do think it makes sense to approach potentially risky situations in a systematic fashion and to know what to expect from dive buddies, so that portion of the DIR way makes sense to me

Is this something that can be done piecemeal? I am pretty much decided on an APEX DS4/ATX50. Should I go with an octo, or another ATX50? I am getting a drysuit and a 3mm wet. Will it be better to buy a BC and get some diving experience before I get a BP/wing set up, or just go with the BP/wing and learn bouyancy and trim with that right away?

And lastly, (well, maybe not LASTLY), what depth are most wrecks? How do most of you that dive the area gear up? I 'm guessing it's probably not neccesary to go DIR/hogarthian right away, but will it be better and more fun and safer in the long run?

Thanks very much.

 

[El Orans]

I am pretty much decided on an APEX DS4/ATX50. Should I go with an octo, or another ATX50? I am getting a drysuit and a 3mm wet. Will it be better to buy a BC and get some diving experience before I get a BP/wing set up, or just go with the BP/wing and learn bouyancy and trim with that right away?

My DIR-F instructor recommended an Apeks ATX50 as primary and a ATX40 as a backup. Others say use two ATX50's (what I have). Both set-ups will work fine.

Start with the BP/W. There is no advantage in spending money twice.

Read more about DIR here:
ScubaBoard.Com > Scuba Diving Central > Technical Diving Specialties > DIR.

Laurens

BTW, welcome (Scub)aBoard! :happywave

 

[wolves64t]

If I could go back and buy my first gear agian I would go BP/Wing right away. With all the weight we have to carry to dive the cold waters here it makes sense to have a stainless plate to eliminate some from your weight belt. As far as the reg goes I would go for a second atx50. If you decide to go with a long hose when you donate air you will be he one breathing off of your secondary so it makes sense to have a good one. Hope you enjoy your training. There are wrecks out there for everyone from beginner to adavanced. The wrecks are generally more intact once you get deeper than 70 feet, but htrere is still plenty to see on the shallower dives as well. Good luck, you couldn't ask to see better wrecks than here in the Great Lakes.

E.B.

 

[docmartin]

any investment in DIR compatible equipment will not be a waste wherever your diving may take you and whether you end up taking the DIR route or not. as to your bp/wing question: you don't have to be advanced to use such a setup. it is no more difficult to use than a standard BC. the pros and cons are the same now as later. i like bp/wing setups so i would recommend going with it from the start. some questions you ask seem a little confused e.g. an atx 50 or an octo. any second stage can be an "octo" so it's not an either - or type of question. an atx 50 certainly makes a fine octo. so does an atx 40 if you want to save some money. same cold water performance but less adjustability. a lot of the things you talk about will become much clearer over the course of your certification.

 

[JeffG]

Will wreck diving lead me into DIR?

No. One is a type of dive, the other is a dive system. You can't compare them. (But you can do a DIR wreck dive)

Should I go with an octo, or another ATX50?

Another ATX50

Will it be better to buy a BC and get some diving experience before I get a BP/wing set up, or just go with the BP/wing and learn bouyancy and trim with that right away?

A BP/Wing is a BC. Its not some strange magic bullet. Its a bag that holds gas just like anyother BC.

The more you use a "thing", the better you are with that "thing". If you keep changing styles, you always have to re-learn a bit.

 

[WaterDawg]

Buying gear twice is a waste of $$ just get a BC you wont "outgrow" as you diving develops. I never hear of folks wanting to learn w/ a Jacket BC then spending $$ on a back inflation BC. I only hear it w/ BP/W.

Also If your gonna go w/ Apeks the AT20 makes a great b/u, same as the 50 but no adjustment.
Of course, my post has less to do w/ "DIR" and more to do w/ just good sence.

 

[navillus]

Good questions

If You are asking about DIR then you must be shopping at Deep Blue! This is where my wife and I got our gear, and they certainly steer you in the direction of DIR. Take my advice with a grain of salt, since I have only been doing this for a year.

I guess the main thing to ask yourself is what kind of diving would you like to do and what can you afford to do. I really would like to get into extended range, advanced Nitrox, decompression diving, but I don't know if I can afford it. Still, this is my goal.

You mentioned wreck diving. Is your goal penetration or non-penetration? Remember, penetration wreck diving is EXPENSIVE and DANGEROUS. I stress both. If you plan on eventually going in the direction of penetration wreck diving, DIR is certainly advisable, not only in regards to equipment, but also as a philosophy.

My instructor told me to plan for DIR, but wait for the classes. Take on step at a time. Enjoy your OW, and then AOW. Move on from there. Even though DIR classes are open to novices, the more experienced you are, the more you will got out of the class.

If you plan on deep diving or penetration wreck diving, plan on getting an H-valve, two enviromentally sealed first stage regulators, and two good second stage regulators and a dry suit. Having said that: PLAN on it, but you don't have to buy it right away.

First get a wetsuit. You mentioned a 3mm, but that is a little cool. I would stick with a 7mm. When I was diving in Hawaii this summer, most of the locals still used a 7mm suit. It is a good all around wet suit that you can still use in warmer climates (just don't use the gloves and hood, and you will be fine). A 7mm wetsuit is good for summer in Wisconsin and you will pobably get more use out of it than a 3mm (I used mine all the way to December, and as early as April, but I do have some extra "lubber" on me).

If you plan on tech, get a BC that will support your goals. I love my Halcyon. Back plate and wings are not any harder to learn on than a jacket BC. Regardless of the BC, bouyance takes practice. My wife tried a Dive Rite but didn't like it. She is not going into the deep stuff, and has no desire. A Libra or Balance BC was fine for her. Get what is comfortable.

My advice for buying equipment is: if you are absolutely sure you want to do deep wreck diving, and have the funds, then you will get a better deal on a package right away (if you are going to Deep Blue, I know the set they have on display, and it is a pretty sweet deal). But if you are unsure of what you want to do, or (like me) unable afford it, then piecemeal. This is what was suggested to me by my LDS as I try to invest in equipment and classes to meet my goal. Take each stage at a time, and buy equipment for each stage. Take time. It doesn't hurt getting experience before you move on.

Wrecks in Wisconsin: The Appomattox of Capitol Dr. in Milwaukee is a Shore Dive and only 15 feet deep. My friend moneysavr takes me out to the Niagara at 55 feet. He found another one at 75 feet. Some in door county are at 20 feet. The Willem is at about 76 feet. The Milwaukee car ferry is at 90- 130 feet. The Northerner is at about 145 feet. There are a lot of wrecks out in the lakes at different depths.

I have only been on the Willem, Niagara and Atlanta (?). I use a core warmer, 7mm suit, halcyon bc, 119 steel tank (I am an air hog), dive rite reg with octo, trama shears, and small back up light (even if I dive during the day), gekko computer with spg. I do NOT penetrate the wrecks. My set up is slowly steering towards DIR, but it is not necessary for the type of diving that I have been doing.

I hope this helps. Be safe and have fun. Maybe my wife and I will see you on a charter sometime.

 

[StSomewhere]

I do not want to make an investment in equipment that is not up to what I expect to be doing and then have to reinvest too soon afterward

Trust me, you really don't want to invest in the wrong equipment and have to do it over, you will blow through a lot of cash needlessly that way, and that's money that should be spent on a good drysuit for a 50-weeks-a-year coldwater diver. (Ask me how I know... )

 

[Damselfish]

If the wetsuit is for warm only I'd say stick with no more than 3mm, I disagree that 7mm is good for the tropics. It's likely way too much for someone from Wisconsin, plus it's a shame to stuff all that neoprene in your suitcase so you have to wear a bunch of weight to sink it, you'd miss part of what's nice about diving there! People who live in a warm climate all the time often wear thicker wetsuits than most of the tourists, and Hawaii is cooler part of the year than many "tropical" places.

 

[Blackwood]

I have only been on the Willem, Niagara and Atlanta (?). I use a core warmer, 7mm suit, halcyon bc, 119 steel tank (I am an air hog), dive rite reg with octo, trama shears, and small back up light (even if I dive during the day), gekko computer with spg. I do NOT penetrate the wrecks. My set up is slowly steering towards DIR, but it is not necessary for the type of diving that I have been doing.

If you're going the DIR route, why'd you waste money on a dive computer?