DIR Feedback

[bradymsu]

Is it a one-day course? What is the average cost? Lost Yooper, do you know of anyone who offers it in the Great Lakes region?

 

[tombiowami]

I recommend contacting GUE for the specifics on the class. I have read a couple reviews of the class, and it seems that it is pretty flexible in terms of the level of teaching. That is the class it taught to the student. They require 25 dives at least so it can be taught to beginners, but is also recommended by them as a pre Tech 1 or Cave 1 if one is not up on DIR or has bullet proof buoy. and trim. I have also read several reviews of cave and tech classes where divers thought they were ready but were not. Some instructors do include the Fund class in an extra long Tech class.

But overall, please contact them and get it straight from the horses mouth.

Also, most of the GUE instructors seem to be IANTD/TDI/NACD etc. instructors also, or have the cert. if they are not teaching it. JJ was the training director for a while for one of them, I forget.

Is that part about the "Each of us will evolve to a personal best configuation." real?

That seems really bizarre to me, it sounds like the flower child version of instruction IMO...


Tommy

 

[large_diver]

Brady,

2-3 days. Here is one in Ohio.....not that close to East Landing, but if you are willing to drive up to the UP to dive, this would probably be "within reach".

You might want to send a PM to detroitdiver just to ask him about it -- gear requirements, etc.

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4943

 

[bradymsu]

Thanks for the link. I read the overview of the DIRF class and think it would be a great program for any person entering technical diving even if the choose to break away to a non-DIR style later on as I did. Both TDI and IANTD should offer a similar course. IANTD currently leaves it up to a diver's instructor to do this. Mine did a 4-day cavern course with me that was also a lengthy introduction to technical diving. One thing I don't understand from the course standards is that is says the END shouldn't be below 60' but it allows dives up to 100'. Surely they don't imply that Nitrox reduces the END. So all I can figure is that they're suggesting a dive shallower than 100' on Tri-Mix or Heliox. Please explain.

 

[Lost Yooper]

Originally posted by Rick Murchison

Where'd you get the idea I "support deep air?" I didn't say anything about deep air. I said that you made a ridiculous statement when you accused Mount and Gilliam of "advocating stupidity" out of avarice "without regard to the safety of their students." That remains ridiculous.
Gilliam teaches air down to 55M (180'), deeper than I believe is safe for me, but then he's been doing it safely for many years. Mount, as far as my research has been able to uncover, doesn't offer any air courses that advocate its use below 130' (40M), and that *is* within what I consider safe on air.
Rick

Tom Mount/IANTD had deep air as a part of their curriculum for years. In fact, in other countries, IANTD still allows deep air. Tom Mount is certainly not on a war path to disallow deep air from IANTD. I thought you were defending deep air diving by not agreeing with me that it is utterly foolish. I apologize if I misunderstood.
I do, however, stand by that statement as it is so blatently obvious (to me and others) that this is what's going on. If deep air diving is physiologically dangerous, then how can you say that by teaching it they are placing their students safety first and foremost? Trimix is the answer here -- they know it, the scientist know it, and Gilliam, Mount, and those of other agencies don't care enough to change or lead the charge to have deep air become taboo. I disaree that Gilliam and Mount have dove deep air "safely" for years. They simply haven't died from it yet as many of their students have.
Granted, Mount has done some changing here in the US (and should be commended for that), but as of a few months ago anyway, deep air was still accpetable in other countries through IANTD. Perhaps Mount doesn't have any control over the overseas stuff (I don't know), but he sure as heck isn't going out of his way to change it.

I think (I hope) we understand each other know.

Mike

 

[Lost Yooper]

UP,

I haven't seen that guy in years. Last I heard, he was running a commercial diving project down south. Great guy though.

Mike

 

[bradymsu]

Tommy,

The quote about evolving to a personal best configuration on page 6 of the IANTD Technical Diver Encyclopedia. It's in bold print so it's not hard to miss. As crazy as it sounds to you, I wouldn't accept it any other way. Disagreement about a personal best configuration vs. "Doing it Right" is essentially what all the conflict about DIR is about. I suspect what path a diver tends toward has a lot to do with his/her personality and will show up in other areas of their life too.

-Brady

 

[Lost Yooper]

Originally posted by bradymsu
Is it a one-day course? What is the average cost? Lost Yooper, do you know of anyone who offers it in the Great Lakes region?

The closest GUE guy I know of is in Kingston Onterio (over towards New York). I heard there was a DIRF class being held in Ohio or somewhere, but I think it's full.

Mike

 

[bradymsu]

Mike,

Tom Mount doesn't determine IANTD's standards, they're determined by a board of advisors. He doesn't carry the same degree of authority in IANTD that George has with DIR principles. The logic behind teaching deep air is to teach something that is dangerous to be safer, not safe (A lot like cave diving). IANTD teaches that deep air is a dangerous practice and should not be done at all if Tri-mix is available. Many in IANTD, like me, don't feel that deep air should be done at all, even if Tri-mix isn't available. It shouldn't be a surprise though that divers in other parts of the world don't like to hear it though. It would be interesting to see how the North American accident rate compares to the international accident rate.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by bradymsu
What does GUE's DIRF class consist of? Is it an overview of the Hogarthian style or is it the introductory class for technical diving? I'd be interested in taking it if it is about DIR style because I suspect it would give me some new ideas and I'd learn something, but I don't want to pay big money for a repeat of technical training I've already had in a different form. I'd also want the freedom to know that I could go into the class and dive with a gear configuartion that is "modified-DIR" and the instructor isn't going to come down on me heavily for using dive computers or refusing to go back to placing the long hose across my chest.

bradymsu,

I think the best bet would be to take a DIRF class and let them teach you everything their way... use their gear and all, or at least configure your gear the way they want for the class. You can always switch back later but this way you will get the full benefit of taking the class to learn what it is that they are teaching.

I really don't think you will find this is too basic a class for you...
Maximize the benefit by going at it with a fresh mind willing to learn.