DIR Feedback

[Lost Yooper]

Originally posted by bradymsu
Mike,

Tom Mount doesn't determine IANTD's standards, they're determined by a board of advisors. He doesn't carry the same degree of authority in IANTD that George has with DIR principles. The logic behind teaching deep air is to teach something that is dangerous to be safer, not safe (A lot like cave diving). IANTD teaches that deep air is a dangerous practice and should not be done at all if Tri-mix is available. Many in IANTD, like me, don't feel that deep air should be done at all, even if Tri-mix isn't available. It shouldn't be a surprise though that divers in other parts of the world don't like to hear it though. It would be interesting to see how the North American accident rate compares to the international accident rate.

Mount carries a whole lot of weight in IANTD, and I have not seen him join the band wagon to kill deep air in the industry as GUE has done. Why not? When he speaks, a whole lot of people listen (as he has a lot of followers). Imagine the good he could do by adopting a hardline no deep air stance as GUE does.

I just don't believe, based on my experience and research, that deep air can be tought to be safer. Physiologically, it is unsafe. It's not like teaching cave diving, IMO.

Take care.

Mike

 

[bradymsu]

I like having these discussions on ScubaBoard and all, but I'm very jealous of the southern divers who can actually go diving today. I have cabin feaver in the worst way. Maybe if I get a big bag of salt and go out to the lake........

 

[Lost Yooper]

I need a vacation. :mean:

 

[bradymsu]

I think I'm going to fill my tub up and go diving. The vis should be great. I can switch to my long hose and leave the tank on the bathroom floor. It would be my first hookah dive and I'd be DIR!

Lost Yooper, what happens on ScubaBoard when all your stars turn yellow. Do they kick you off or do you become a moderator? By the way, which of our moderators are DIR?

 

[The Chairman]

It's probably time to find a bathroom or hope you are wearing a rented wetsuit... :tease:

As for diving... I feel a West Palm trip coming up this WEDNSDAY... A three tanker too! Kudos to Florida for having such GREAT weather and year round diving to boot!

 

[Lost Yooper]

Well, I believe KN sends you on a vacation to the Caymens when all your stars turn yellow.

I think Iguana Don follows the DIR thing -- I don't know how close .

Mike

 

[WetDane]

I am more interested in discussing the overall philosophy and people's reaction to it.

This is what I am after:
- If you've adopted some or all of DIR, why?
- If not "100%", what parts did you decide not to adopt and why?
- Have you taken any courses? If so, which ones?
- How did these courses shape your impression of DIR? Did you adopt/emulate everything you saw/learned in your course(s)? If the answer is no -- why not?

Let the games begin!

:fight: [/B]

I'll return to the original posting and then make a comment on something Neil said...

1) Yes, it makes sense to me and I feel safe wth th eguys I dive with - and they are all DIR
3) DIRF
4) I found the class to be the single best diving lcass I have ever taken, Tech1 is next.

I think the thing to focus on is philosophy - sure - there is a lot to be said about the gear config, but what I like is that this crew is out training skills a lot - we have training dives at least a couple of times a week in addition to regular dives... And when I dive with others I can see how they have poor trim etc, etc...

I think the biggest disservice the line of thinking ever did to itself was the name, I try to lead by example and I know a lot of folks who has been diving with me who are switching to can lights and taking the DIRF class to get better in water skills.
Important issues get adressed, when my buddy got so into his frog kicks on a dive that he forgot there was a buddy oout ther he got an overhaul you have not seen here - from me - and he said thank you when I was done - it is about safety to me and some divers scare the crap out of me - I have had a buddy *disappear* at 130 and walk out of the water later telling me that he does a lot of solo diving... This would not happen if I was diving with a DIR diver.

Anyway - I would like to address something Neil said in a post here - primarily because I have been guilty of doing this -
Neil said that he was frustrated by people who claims his incompetence since he is a Padi instructor -
Neil, I agree with you, I believe that there are many fine instructors out there, heck, there are many fine divers who has nothing to do with DIR and dives whatever rig they dive - I think the association comes around because I often see instructors who have no place being an instructor and that is probably where I get my dislike for most of the training agencies.

IMHO, I would like to se more conversation about all this - the original post here was directed that way and it still turned half ugly.

Cheers,
Big T

 

[neil]

Wetdane,
I appreciate your comments and like your general attitude. (BTW, I am a NAUI and PADI instructor. I'm quite proud of that first one).

The whole DIR thing is interesting in that, if you look at it, the regular OW training agencies have a bit of the DIR philosophy in every category. It just needs to be taught and implemented more exactly and with better regularity. As I've said, I DO teach equipment standardization, buddy procedures, dive planning, bouyancy control, etc..

To also get back to the original post: no, I'm not DIR, have never taken a course, and don't know a single diver who has. Would I take the course? Yeah, sometime when I can spend the money. In the meantime I'm diving just fine, and I'll dive with just about anybody.

I'll say it again, DIR may just be the perfect technique for tech diving. For OW, I think it's a solution to a non-existent problem. We already have equipment that works, and techniques and procedures to be safe. We just need to teach them better and more consistently. My 2 cents.

Neil

 

[ChrisM]

This is what I am after:
- If you've adopted some or all of DIR, why?
- If not "100%", what parts did you decide not to adopt and why?
- Have you taken any courses? If so, which ones?
- How did these courses shape your impression of DIR? Did you adopt/emulate everything you saw/learned in your course(s)? If the answer is no -- why not

1. Some - Long hose, bungeed backup, backplate and wings. Backplate and wings because it is amazingly comfrotable underwater, allows me to drop weight, and keeps me in better trim. Bungeed backup because it is a far superior way to secure the alternate, and long hose because you must have at least octo length hose to donate, and octo length creates a snag hazard, thus long hose.

2. Like my Volos, like my computer. I dive with what I like.

3. No

 

[Divesherpa]

1. Hogarthian for the most part, which is close to DIR
2. I use Quattro's when I'm wet or in the ocean because jetfins are heavy and don't propel ME as easily or fast. I mount long hose on opposite post from DIR so I will notice roll-offs faster. I use both a neoprene and shell drysuit for caving. I solo every day, usually several times a day. I dive deeper on air than they say is safe(often when in Alaska due to lack of He). I allow 1.6 PPO2 on deco and short bottom times. The list continues.
If I were going back 20,000 feet on a regular basis, I would change some things, but not much.
As far as open water, I have seen more wanna-be DIR guys trying to look cool and talk crap when they had no clue what they were doing.
I even had a guy who has never been in overhead (barring a 15 foot penetration into an artificial reef in 40 feet of water) tell me what I should do in a silt-out.
3. I haven't taken a class. Reason: Diving every day since November(except 3 days), I've had the opportunity to observe several GUE Classes. It is my humble opinion that GUE is a basis for training people to carry other people's gear for them. I have witnessed a 250 lb. man smoking a cigarette in a Cave 1 class. This double standard is unbelievable. Exception would be if I could take a cave III class from JJ himself. I have heard great things about Jablonski, even from when he was teaching at Ginnie.
Another of the instructors in Extreme Exposure is very nice. His name is another word for the big rock that was "one small step for man"'

Just my input.
I would bore you guys longer, but I think it time to shoot some film of a sidemount tunnel at Ginnie.
Cheers,