DIR Fanatics

[MikeS]

UP,

1. To me it didn’t seem much of a poke to start with. More importantly it did not appear to be directed at any individual. I don’t buy the “he threw the first rock” defense anyway. I can’t think of a situation that justifies the use of name-calling and personally directed derogatory comments.

2. Point well taken, I should have said, “I am not ready to make the commitment in time and money.” I don’t think I have purchased any crappy gear yet in part because of the advice on this board.

3. Not sure I understand why some folk should be scared off. Who gets to decide who gets scared off? The best response to ill informed or malicious poster would be to address the issues with as you say reasoned responses. It will soon become apparent to everyone reading what the situation is.

Sorry but in my book believing that “GUE trained divers are superior divers in every respect. You can buy the DIR gear... you can read the DIR articles on the net... but without the GUE DIR training you really don't have a clue” does not make one a fanatic. Perhaps you’re a DIR devotee?

Belittling and calling people names because they question or disagree with one’s believes crosses the line and is fanaticism.

This post was not intended as insult or directed at any individual rather it was an attempt to get people share information without resorting to name calling and insults. It seems like, at least in this thread, the level of civility has bee raised a notch and I hope it sticks.

Mike

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by MikeS
UP,

1. To me it didn’t seem much of a poke to start with. More importantly it did not appear to be directed at any individual. I don’t buy the “he threw the first rock” defense anyway. I can’t think of a situation that justifies the use of name-calling and personally directed derogatory comments.

Mike, maybe you didn't realize that I was referring to you poking me... and anyone else who is DIR... in the nose...

Your opening post (not to mention thread title): I don’t understand the mentality of DIR fanatics that treat any question in reference to DIR as heresy and immediately resort to name calling and insults.

Pot to kettle, pot to kettle,
You are black, you are black...

If they truly feel that DIR is a superior system why not join an open and civil dialog to help others see the benefits?

Mike it takes two to have a dialog and it takes civility on both sides to have civil dialog... you seem to think that only the DIR posters must show respect and civility... think again... come in with an attitude? Prepare to get thumped. BTW we have had many civil discussions concerning DIR on this board and I have had many many sincere questions in PMs that I have patiently answered... (so where are you guys now?!)

2. Point well taken, I should have said, “I am not ready to make the commitment in time and money.” I don’t think I have purchased any crappy gear yet in part because of the advice on this board.

Well then.... service has been rendered

3. Not sure I understand why some folk should be scared off. Who gets to decide who gets scared off?

Well you are right here of course and with perfect patience a DIR *fanatic* (or the slightly less perjorative *devotee*) might be able to continue providing lucid answers to muddled, ill informed and insincere questions... (I use to think that the only patient one on here was Omar and now I think he is just as fallible as the rest of us ) Anyway the phrase was from the redneck excuse for murder: "He needed killin' "

Sorry but in my book believing that “GUE trained divers are superior divers in every respect. You can buy the DIR gear... you can read the DIR articles on the net... but without the GUE DIR training you really don't have a clue” does not make one a fanatic. Perhaps you’re a DIR devotee?

Perhaps I am a diver who has more experience and knows what he is talking about... I've been on both sides of the fence... (the difference is remarkable enough to call it a fence)... and I can say GUE training has enhanced all of my diving... recreational diving included. You can fling religious invective at me and try to minimize what I am saying but you really should read your quote below:

Belittling and calling people names because they question or disagree with one’s believes crosses the line and is fanaticism.

So then Mike, and I say this without any rancor...remember, Uncle Pug loves you... what does it make you when you call people fanatics and dismiss them as devotees?

 

[MikeS]

Dear Uncle Pug,

I’m glad you still love me.

I don’t know why you felt I was poking you it was not intentional if I did. I didn’t refer to anyone and certainly not you in particular. While maybe I didn’t do a good job I tried to point out that my issue wasn’t with DIR or the people that subscribed to DIR but with the name calling and belittling.

Perhaps I’m the kettle (or the pot) in your eyes but I think that there is an important difference between derogatory comments about an individual and commenting on a behavior that is inappropriate (at least in my opinion).

I don’t think that DIR posters as an isolated group must show respect and civility; I think that all posters should show respect and civility. And furthermore, just because respect and civility is not shown to someone doesn’t make it appropriate for them to return the favor.

Some how I got in trouble with religious invectives. At the risk of getting deeper in, I’d like to explain. To start with lets look at the definitions:

Fanatic -- A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.

Devotee -- One who is ardently devoted to something; an enthusiast or advocate.

The point I was trying to make, perhaps not very well, is that there is nothing wrong with believing and supporting in something. I was referring to “devotee” in a positive context and attempting to make the distinction between being devoted to something and using it like a sword to bash others.



Mike

P.S. Who needs lucid answers more than the muddled and ill informed?

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by MikeS
Dear Uncle Pug,

I’m glad you still love me.

Actually Mike I wasn't at all offended, or put off by your characterization of DIR devotees as fanatics... I just wanted to point out to you how such a generalization can stifle civil discussion before it can even begin. It is unbecoming and certainly counter productive no matter which side it comes from *first.*

Usually the word devotee is connected with the term *cult* and of course we have seen that this crops up all the time as a slam against DIR advocates. I am a DIR advocate because of critical thinking and personal experience... not devotion. There is a vast difference that I hope you can see.

I don't really take any of this personally even though at times I will let on that I do to get people to think about what they are saying.

BTW per you definition of fanatic I think that most of the zeal against DIR is based not on thoughtful reasoning but emotion.

PS... the muddled and ill informed questions are not the problem... it is the insincere question.

 

[MikeS]

UP,

Advocate would have been a better term than devotee, my bad. And I never meant to characterize advocates (or devotees) as fanatics. In fact I was attempting to make the distinction. The fact that you are a DIR advocate based on critical thinking rather than “unreasoning enthusiasm” means that at least by definition, you’re not a fanatic. Please turn in your key ring immediately.:gjoker:

The shame is that emotional zeal (on both sides) creates an atmosphere unconducive to the exchange of ideas. I hope that you would agree that those of us starting out should apply the same critical thinking to the issue as you have rather than just applying blind acceptance.

The answer to an insincere question is read by more than just the one that asked it. Well, enough Zen for the day. I have to get on the road to pick up some tanks for tomorrow.

Mike

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by MikeS
those of us starting out should apply the same critical thinking to the issue as you have rather than just applying blind acceptance.

Or blind rejection.

The answer to an insincere question is read by more than just the one that asked it.

This is something that I need to be constantly reminded of...
Thank you Mike.

 

[landlocked]

Originally posted by Uncle Pug

If you or anyone else has a ligitimate question asked with common courtesy & respect you will get reasoned answers from many on this board.... if you just want to argue you will get an argument.

I confess!!
I have done both and enjoyed both the discussions and the arguments immensely. A sincere thanks to ya all.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by landlocked
I have done both and enjoyed both the discussions and the arguments immensely.

Why you stinker!




yeah, me too...