DIR-F swim requirement question

[Xanthro]

The DIRF test is not a test of some kind of real-life emergency simulation. It is a test of basic cardiovascular fitness and VO2 capacity. If you can't hit 50 feet in swimtrunks and no gear, you have some kind of a physical fitness issue which needs to be addressed. Period. With fins on, you should be able to go farther.

I had a hard time hitting 50 feet initially, but I got into the pool and practiced and I'm getting into better shape and I can hit 60 feet consistantly now, and I'm working on hitting 70 feet consistantly. And I suck. Start going to the pool every other day and 50 feet should get easy. Stop making excuses about how its not fair.

How did you conclude that I'm making an excuse as to how the test is not fair?

I've swam over 300 FEET before. 50 feet is nothing under the test conditions, it's pathetically easy.

Had you stopped at it's a cardiovascular and VO2 test, you'd have been fine, but when I ask what relevance the test has to diving, and I get replies that it mimics a diving condition and I point out that it does not mimic a diving condition and present a type of test that would more accurately reflect what would be expected on a dive, this does not say the test is currently too hard.

In fact, swimming 50 feet in gear with fins in a 7mm wetsuit would be nearly as hard than doing so in trunks with no gear. The former has far more drag and while fins are more efficient, in gear you lose much of the ability to glide and use your arms.

 

[Xanthro]

Hehe.. yeah, the instructor who was coaching me last week when I was having trouble asked if any of my "advanced training" (he knows nothing about GUE) required simulated OOG swims underwater with gear on. I told him yes, and that if he let me do this same test with full gear and my jet fins, I would pass easily

You likely have much better technique in gear. Swimming underwater is really technique driven. With training they'd both be about the same difficulty, but as divers most of us are far more comfortable in gear and our diving techinque is much better than underwater swimming technique.

One of the engineers (fire apparatus driver/operator) I work with is a former pararescueman. He's learned the technique to an art and looks like he doesn't even move. He doesn't use his arms at all and gets to the other end of the pool, takes a breath and comes back not even breathing hard. I'm thinking THAT's the guy I need to coach me

Is this with fins or without?

Without fins proper frog kick, which differs greatly from the scuba frog kick, is needed to get really far distances. With practice you can get use your arms as well, but the timing is critical. The most important aspect is getting the most out of your glide. You should be moving as little as possible to reduce Co2 buildup and O usage.

A standard 10 meter pool there and one breath back is not hard at all. With just a little practice 5 laps underwater with no breaths can be obtained by most people if they can kick turn effieciently. It's sort of cheating on a small pool because your kick will take you most of the entire distance.

Now, if he did this on a 50 meter pool, that's pretty impressive. 50 straight meters takes real skill and control.

 

[Snowbear]

You likely have much better technique in gear. Swimming underwater is really technique driven. With training they'd both be about the same difficulty, but as divers most of us are far more comfortable in gear and our diving techinque is much better than underwater swimming technique.

Yeah, I probably do. I have never spent much time under water without scuba gear. I have no trouble surface swimming, but never did much breath hold swimming/diving.

Is this with fins or without?

Without fins proper frog kick, which differs greatly from the scuba frog kick, is needed to get really far distances. With practice you can get use your arms as well, but the timing is critical. The most important aspect is getting the most out of your glide. You should be moving as little as possible to reduce Co2 buildup and O usage.

A standard 10 meter pool there and one breath back is not hard at all. With just a little practice 5 laps underwater with no breaths can be obtained by most people if they can kick turn effieciently. It's sort of cheating on a small pool because your kick will take you most of the entire distance.

Now, if he did this on a 50 meter pool, that's pretty impressive. 50 straight meters takes real skill and control.

He did it without fins. It looked like he was using a dolphin kick.... maybe two or three little kicks the length of the 25m pool. He kept his arms flat against his sides the whole length. Looked very smooth and efficient from the surface and like I said, he didn't appear to need to catch his breath after doing this twice in succession. I don't think he would have had any trouble at all doing a full 50m, but he took a quick breath when he turned around and came back.

 

[piikki]

If you can't hit 50 feet in swimtrunks and no gear, you have some kind of a physical fitness issue which needs to be addressed.

If I have to do it in trunks I just might have some trouble - especially if all the guys are watching. Leaving the top off seriously cramps my style.

 

[lamont]

If I have to do it in trunks I just might have some trouble - especially if all the guys are watching. Leaving the top off seriously cramps my style.

point taken... =)

 

[Snowbear]

If I have to do it in trunks I just might have some trouble - especially if all the guys are watching. Leaving the top off seriously cramps my style.

 

[CameronMartz]

The DIRF test is not a test of some kind of real-life emergency simulation. It is a test of basic cardiovascular fitness and VO2 capacity. If you can't hit 50 feet in swimtrunks and no gear, you have some kind of a physical fitness issue which needs to be addressed. Period. With fins on, you should be able to go farther.

Though others have alluded to it, Lamont sums it up best- this is a fitness and water confidence test, not a simulated gas emergency. If you think about it, OOG is very un-DIR, and having to swim any appreciable distance to *get* gas is even less DIR. <g> It would be much more productive to focus your training on preventing OOG and developing/maintaining good buddy skills than to work on how far you can swim with or without your gear on while holding your breath. To be more realistic, you should exhale first, anyway, which should give you a much better idea of how close I stay to my buddies (and it's not 50ft away). <g>

A note about technique- though the standards don't preclude someone swimming across the surface with their faces in the water, this is actually a very inefficient way of doing it. If you can pass doing this, no problem, but if you're having trouble making the distance, remember that anytime your kick breaks the surface, you're wasting energy. I'm sorry that I can't remember who wrote it (only this page is showing up in the "Topic Review"), but the advice about getting down a couple feet and swimming while looking at the bottom, not the wall, is spot on. Looking at the wall will bring your head up and your legs down, which is also why it's one of the first things coaches try to correct with freestyle technique.

Cameron

 

[Tollie]

I think there are multiple virtues for the swim test and no breath swim. Lamont had it right when he mentioned basic fitness. One of tenets of GUE training is that a divers lifestyle should support his or her diving. One point that has not been mentioned is that a basic swim test and breath hold test will quickly reveal any discomfort that a student may have about being in the water and especially their self discipline in a situation where they may not have ongoing access to air.

 

[*Floater*]

Yeah, I probably do. I have never spent much time under water without scuba gear. I have no trouble surface swimming, but never did much breath hold swimming/diving.

He did it without fins. It looked like he was using a dolphin kick.... maybe two or three little kicks the length of the 25m pool. He kept his arms flat against his sides the whole length. Looked very smooth and efficient from the surface and like I said, he didn't appear to need to catch his breath after doing this twice in succession. I don't think he would have had any trouble at all doing a full 50m, but he took a quick breath when he turned around and came back.

Snowbear, or anyone else, if you know or discover some special technique to breath hold swimming please elaborate. I'm sure it's all about technique and someone out there must have perfected it. I'd be curious to know how it's done.

I imagine heavy smokers would have a harder time doing the breath hold swim (?) so this may be one way that GUE enforces it's standards.

 

[CameronMartz]

Snowbear, or anyone else, if you know or discover some special technique to breath hold swimming please elaborate. I'm sure it's all about technique and someone out there must have perfected it. I'd be curious to know how it's done.

I imagine heavy smokers would have a harder time doing the breath hold swim (?) so this may be one way that GUE enforces it's standards.

From Appendix B: Passing the Open Water Swim Test:

"Breath hold swimming should be done under the direct supervision of a certified lifeguard... Surface as soon as you think you should- don't push your luck.

These hints may improve your breath hold swimming distance:
1. Don't push off the wall too hard. This will just put your body into "fighting" mode from the start. Just a gradual push like you're standing up from a chair is best.
2. Make sure you're fully submerged. If your kicks break the surface of the water, you'll lose thrust.
3. Look at the bottom of the pool rather than the opposite wall. Swimming face first will ruin your trim and streamline. Use the lane line to know when you're about to reach the other side. If you don't make it all the way, knowing how close you are won't matter until you surface, anyway. So, don't waste energy worrying about it while you're swimming.
4. Emphasize a long stroke followed by a long glide. It's not a race to the other side- it's about getting the most distance out of the breath you took. After a point, the faster you swim, the less distance you'll get.
5. Surface as soon as you think you should- don't push your luck. The real value in this exercise is in learning efficiency of movement, not tolerance to hypoxia. When you get this right, you will be able to swim the length of the pool and not be gasping for breath when you surface."

Of course, if you're not allowed to push off the wall, you still want to start out "gently," picking up speed gradually.

There are other tricks with hyperventilation, exhaling at the end, etc., but these can increase your chance of passing out. The standards are such that you will pass them without taking such risks if you just practice a little.

Cameron