DIR equipment: computers?

[Charlie99]

IMO, neither strapping a computer onto your wrist and then turning off your brain; nor relying solely upon your memory and calculations by turning off your computer makes much sense.

Jarrod Jablonksi has a couple pages devoted to this issue in the book Doing It Right, The Fundamentals of Better Diving.. This book, written by the CEO of GUE is a good source of info on DIR. Even if you do not intend to do training with GUE, or use a DIR gear configuration, there is a lot of good information to review and contemplate, not just about gear, but also about general dive skills.

Charlie

 

[Snowbear]

IMO, neither strapping a computer onto your wrist and then turning off your brain

People do this all the time. I've dove with them. They don't think there's anything wrong with it. Neither did I, when I dove that way... after all, the computer calculated my N2 loading for me every 20 seconds or so and accounted for a multilevel profile and multiple dives per day over multiple days

...nor relying solely upon your memory and calculations by turning off your computer makes much sense.

I don't turn off my computer ~ I put it in guage mode. My memory isn't that great. Fortunately, it's not that hard to remember just a couple numbers.

I haven't been doing this quite long enough to accurately be able to tell time by my SPG, but if the computeringuagemode ever craps out, I'll still have a pretty good idea how to finish up my dive with very little risk and no anxiety and I'll still be able to continue diving as planned.

 

[Charlie99]

I don't turn off my computer ~ I put it in guage mode. My memory isn't that great. Fortunately, it's not that hard to remember just a couple numbers.

Why not let it continue to run and display deco calculations, which you then compare with your mental tracking?

Are the extra numbers confusing?

Do you not have the mental discipline to still track your deco status mentally when the computer is on?

Or is there something else that I'm missing?

Charlie


p.s. I find telling time by SPG simpler than tracking deco status. Just think of depth in ata rather than feet. Metric is a lot easier.

 

[happybuddha]

I've dived with several pre-DIRF-ies who used AI hoseless computers and I think it impacts their awareness of gas management.

How does having the information about gas supply on your wrist as opposed to clipped off to your left waist D ring affect ones awareness and gas management?

I am rigged DIR (but haven't done Fundies yet), so not trolling, just don't understand this as a reason.

Drew

 

[Snowbear]

Why not let it continue to run and display deco calculations, which you then compare with your mental tracking?

Are the extra numbers confusing?

Do you not have the mental discipline to still track your deco status mentally when the computer is on?

Or is there something else that I'm missing?

Charlie


p.s. I find telling time by SPG simpler than tracking deco status. Just think of depth in ata rather than feet. Metric is a lot easier.

Well yes actually... my own deco "calculations" (rules of thumb, really) are different enough from the computers that yes, it's easier to just have my time and depth displayed than whatever time the computer "thinks" I need to do between 10 and 20 feet.

I've always admitted to being much less intelligent than the average bear, so you're probably right about the mental discipline part. Back when I left the computer in computer mode, I found I was paying more attention to the NDL or "ascent time" if in "deco obligation" than I was to keeping track of my own average depth and time needed to spend shallow for time spent deep and gas needed to do it.

Ya know - though this is in the DIR forum and this is a completely non-DIR answer, I agree with you on this - if you are comfortable using your computer to figure out your "NDL" and deco for you, as well as keep track your gas consumption, you are probably safer letting it think for you than learning to think through your dives yourself.

 

[Snowbear]

How does having the information about gas supply on your wrist as opposed to clipped off to your left waist D ring affect ones awareness and gas management?

I am rigged DIR (but haven't done Fundies yet), so not trolling, just don't understand this as a reason.

Drew

From what I understand, the hosed as well as hoseless AI computers also tell you "minutes of gas remaining" based on how fast the psi is dropping.

One of the DIR reasons for not liking the hoseless AI feature is the high failure rate of the transmission signal (also confirmed by what I've been told by folks who actually use them). A plain 'ol SPG is much more reliable (unless of course you smash it under a Scuba tank like I did to mine last summer :11:

 

[radinator]

How does having the information about gas supply on your wrist as opposed to clipped off to your left waist D ring affect ones awareness and gas management?

I am rigged DIR (but haven't done Fundies yet), so not trolling, just don't understand this as a reason.

Drew

I've not done Fundies yet either, but I don't trust hoseless computers. I've seen several divers (and talked to many more) who have had problems getting the signal to sync up, so the computer is reading something very different from what is actually in the tank. Two of them sucked their tank dry when the computer was showing plenty of air remaining.

Personally, I also see problems with having your computer as your only depth guage, since sometimes "smart" computers will decide to lock up and not show you anything if you violate their rules. Suddenly, mid-dive, you've got nothing, not even a depth measurement.

I don't want my technology doing my thinking for me (which is why I HATE the recent trend in car headlights that turn on automatically or you can't turn them off after you stop the car.)

I'm no luddite either. I've had a computer since the late 70s, and work in the tech field. But I do think many things are over-engineered.

 

[lamont]

How does having the information about gas supply on your wrist as opposed to clipped off to your left waist D ring affect ones awareness and gas management?

I am rigged DIR (but haven't done Fundies yet), so not trolling, just don't understand this as a reason.

Drew

Well, first of all they don't gain the skill of clipping and unclipping on the left d-ring because they can just watch on their wrist. I've had guys who dive AI complain to me about needing to work on this skill by their own admission.

Also, they can just watch the countdown constantly and don't really need to get into a predictive mode with their gas. If you have to hit the left d-ring, and particularly if you're just learning and it is a pain to do, you start to think about how to compute from your depth and sac rate and pressure how much time you've got left before you need to check again. If you're diving AI you can just watch the psi countdown until you hit your rockbottom and turn it -- and the computer is giving you estimates of your time left as well, so you're not learning how to estimate that yourself.

 

[happybuddha]

I wasn't defending hoseless computers, besides their cost never owned one because of reasons you have mentioned. The point of my post was that I didn't understand the relationship lamont made between hoseless and awareness and gas management.

Well, first of all they don't gain the skill of clipping and unclipping on the left d-ring because they can just watch on their wrist. I've had guys who dive AI complain to me about needing to work on this skill by their own admission.

Don't see this as being directly related to AI computer, anyone that hasn't had their SPG clipped off to the left waist D-ring before has the same issue, especially with deco bottles clipped off. I have used a clipped off SPG since '99 when I did Adv EANx, but it was only last year that I started clipping off to the left waist D-ring, after doing Tx with a DIR-compliant instructor. Previously I ran it under my left arm and clipped it off on chest ring.

I still find getting to SPG, unclipping it reading it and replacing it with stages clipped off a pain in the @#%&. Sure it will come with time, but my point is I have never owned an AI computer and I have the same issue. As with most diving, its training, attitude and time in the water.

.[/QUOTE] Also, they can just watch the countdown constantly and don't really need to get into a predictive mode with their gas. If you have to hit the left d-ring, and particularly if you're just learning and it is a pain to do, you start to think about how to compute from your depth and sac rate and pressure how much time you've got left before you need to check again. If you're diving AI you can just watch the psi countdown until you hit your rockbottom and turn it -- and the computer is giving you estimates of your time left as well, so you're not learning how to estimate that yourself.[/QUOTE]

As above, this goes to training and attitude, its like guns don't kill people, people kill people... don't blame it on the tool, blame it on the user.

Drew

 

[lamont]

As above, this goes to training and attitude, its like guns don't kill people, people kill people... don't blame it on the tool, blame it on the user.

Sure, but in the best case, you learn all the skills you need in order to make the AI computer totally worthless. In the worst case, you don't learn those skills because of the AI computer. That doesn't seem to be a good use of money to me...