DIR Doing Their Thang!

[cornfed]

You want to know the major problem with DIR? It's the insulting, closed-minded people that don't want to challenge what they think they know and therefore reject the DIR approach not out of an informed position, but ignorance. The "problem" with DIR isn't us, Fred, the problem's staring you back from the mirror.

Sorry roakey, but you're wrong. It's very tempting to blame people like Fred for all the DIR fighting but they're not the only reason these thing get drug out. If people on the DIR side wouldn't get spun up themselves these things would die down. How long do you think Fred would be willing to argue with himself? Instead, parties on both sides toss gasoline on the fire knowing full well it won't cool things off. As everyone here knows, I spar with Painter on a regular basis and let me tell you this: in the end neither of us comes out looking very good.

 

[cornfed]

You keep proving my point. If what I say wasn't true you wouldn't be insulted because it wouldn't apply to you. But as we all can see it does.

The "if the shoe fits, wear it" argument it one of the weakest out there, IMO. It's not insulting because it applies to him, it's insulting because you're trying to unjustly apply it to him. I was about to say that the difference is subtle but it really isn't.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think you will find that GUE doesn't claim that DIR and the teaching methods are for everyone. If you like it, take a class, if you don't, don't.

Or do like me and dive with a bunch of DIR divers. Observe, emulate, ask questions, and adopt those things you think best fit your diving style and goals. Ignore those who'll judge you based on their "standards" ... trust me, they're in the minority in the DIR crowd. Most DIR divers will be happy to explain things without being judgemental (at least that's been my experience). Yes, you're likely to meet some that you think are arseholes ... but that can be said of most any group of people you'll meet anywhere.

FWIW - I'm not DIR ... been accused many times of being anti-DIR, in fact. And yet one of our prominent DIR divers in this community (Uncle Pug) is a friend and mentor. I've never seen him being judgemental of anyone ... and you'll not meet a more knowledgeable and helpful dive buddy. I can say similar things about most DIR divers I've met ... and all the ones I've decided I want to dive with.

So please go easy on the stereotypes ... what you're describing really only applies to a few, fairly vocal individuals. Don't trust what you read on the Internet ... only by diving with someone can you find out what they're really all about.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[detroit diver]

You just made my point.
DIR divers are so easy to spot. Your doing DIR a disservice with your attitudes.
DIR has alot of good ppoints to it but the attitudes from the praticing divers needs help.

Fred

Hey Fred,

Let's read this thread from the beginning. And answer this question:

Who was the first post that said

"About DIR. They do this recreationaly and are out there to enjoy themselves.
Drivers that take the DIR course do so not to just improve their diving skills but so they can say " ANYTHING YOU CA DO I CAN DO BETTER" It's an ego trip for them. You can tell the DIR divers a mile away. Their the first one to give you that look or that backdoor remark If they think what your doing doesn't meet their standards."

Now, was that someone DIR telling everyone else that they can do it better? Or was that you showing your true colors?

 

[MikeFerrara]

I guess the sad part is that if they say...

" ANYTHING YOU CA DO I CAN DO BETTER"

It's often true. LOL

If you guys are going to argue DIR why don't you do it on the relative merits of the system rather than the personalities of some individuals.

 

[cornfed]

If you guys are going to argue DIR why don't you do it on the relative merits of the system rather than the personalities of some individuals.

Because there is a little ad hominem in each of us!

 

[GDI]

What are they marketing?

Can't be equipment, GUE manufacturers no equipment, and even Halcyon and EE doesn't have that wide a selection of equipment, the vast majority of cost to the diver is in exposure protection, fins, BCs, tanks, regulators, etc. none of which have to be Halcyon to be DIR...

So it's not equipment, so it must be training. Well, that doesn't make sense, since not only is GUE a tiny agency compared to anyone else (and actively LIMITING its growth), but it's probably the most inexpensive way to get trained. To learn to dive and mix Trimix with IANTD, you have to take the deco class, the Nitrox mixing class, the Trimix mixing class and the Trimix diving class.

You get this all in one Tech-1 class with GUE...

So if it's not equipment, and it's not training, just how is DIR a marketing ploy again?

Roak

:doctor: Again I am not against DIR Principles. What are they marketing? Hmmmmm? Let me see here-could it be a training system?Why YES I think so! PADI does not market equipment but they do support the seller/retailer. Oh wait now so does NAUI, TDI, NACD, SSI, SDI, YMCA, LA County, ACUC, PDIC, CMAS, NSS-CDS, IANTD, ANDI. None of these agency's market equipment. They do market training programs. AND AGAIN At least I can say GUE has a good intent. I am not slamming GUE or any other agency. My original question was: Do you see DIR bring back the good solid basic fundamentals of diving skills, and mixing them with todays technology? All in the attempt to improve divers. I think JJ the founder of GUE (?) has a good plan here. If GUE wishes to limit their instructor base to only 33 instructors for quality control, thats OK. Of course for GUE to survive they will have to bring on additional instructors. GUE is a new kid on the block, WHO trained all their instructors? Come on now the chicken or the egg-who came first? If GUE is the only group who teach "DIR", then where are all these DIR-F people coming from all over the country? The poor GUE instructors must be coming close to instructor burn out. The GUE instructors I have met are good guys, So are the NAUI, SSI, YMCA etc. The real attitude problem people come from within the rank and file. And they (the few) are portraying a poor image. I see the same with any agency.

 

[roakey]

A minor correction...
Technically with IANTD, blending is a seperate class but there isn't any reason you couldn't do it at the same time and I doubt it'll cost any more than doing tech 1 and 2.

Around here Nitrox is one blending class and Trimix is a second blending class. Why you need a second class for handling an inert gas is beyond me, you learned to handle the dangerous gas (O2) in the first class...

Roak

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I guess the sad part is that if they say...



It's often true. LOL

If you guys are going to argue DIR why don't you do it on the relative merits of the system rather than the personalities of some individuals.

This brings to mind a point worth (IMO) discussing ... because I don't think that's necessarily the case.

To my concern, there are two equally important aspects to being a good diver ... skills and judgement. I've sometimes found that divers become so focused on the former that they neglect the latter. And I think that in some cases those who go through the DIR-F class come out with such improved skills that they develop an overconfidence that impairs their judgement. This sometimes leads them to decide to dive in conditions that they might otherwise have avoided (and should have in any case). To date, those situations I'm thinking of (such as choosing a current-intensive site at a time when they should have gone elsewhere) have not led to any disasters ... but that's because their training taught them out to get out of a bad situation, not how to avoid one in the first place.

I have, on several occasions, dived with DIR-F grads who have skills equal to or better than my own ... and yet I'll find myself at some point taking the lead in the dive because it becomes clear to me that they are not making good underwater decisions.

I'm not sure how ... or even if ... judgement can be taught in a classroom. But I think it's erroneous to simply say someone's a good diver because they've been taught the basic tenets of the DIR system. That's only part (although a very important part) of what makes a diver good.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MikeFerrara]

=GDIIf GUE is the only group who teach "DIR", then where are all these DIR-F people coming from all over the country? The poor GUE instructors must be coming close to instructor burn out. The GUE instructors I have met are good guys, So are the NAUI, SSI, YMCA etc. The real attitude problem people come from within the rank and file. And they (the few) are portraying a poor image. I see the same with any agency.

Most of the instructors travel especially the 5th D folks. I tried to set up some DIRF classes and bring Tyler Moon in to teach them but 5th D had classes all around me about every other week it seemed and I couldn't fill a class.

Another interesting thing is that there are a few GUE instructors who actually make a living teaching. Other instructors do too but usually in resort areas. These folks do it by traveling around teaching. So they have also seemed to have made teaching profitable which is something I've never been able to do. LOL