DIR Diver Specialty?

[Blackwood]

Its no easy thing to accomplish, and those crossovers are few and far between.

What one training council member told me is that "one day" crossovers are rare. However, a few days in the water may be enough.

 

[TSandM]

I think if you wanted to do this under the PADI umbrella, you would have to submit for a distinctive specialty . . . OR you can teach the class as a workshop without a C-card. My husband's techreational workshop has been run past PADI, and as long as it doesn't involve a card, they had no objection to it.

 

[cfenton]

Why not?

So do you think it's possible that PADI (since it's your agency) consider a DIR Diver Specialty class? A separate specialty course for OW divers or higher?

Because, PADI is the furthest thing from DIR going in the market. When I did my IE my Instructor Examiner was outright hostile to my diving a bp&w, long hose and finning with my knees bent, etc. etc. I just can't see a DIR specialty ever happening.

I mean do you think it fits in a non DIR-oriented agency's curriculum?

You pretty much answered your own question in your first post:

As far as I understand, DIR is a holistic approach. That's why the whole agency should be DIR oriented from the very first beginning if it aims at teaching DIR classes.

I think the idea of recreational agencies teaching a fundamental skills specialty, or better yet, teaching these skills from the get go, is a great idea. I think calling it DIR is a bad idea.

 

[liuk3]

I guess what I'm wondering is if one is interested in this type of training and considering this style of diving, why not just take a reputable class which already exists from one of the aforementioned agencies rather than try to create an "incomplete" or "inferior" clone. If I want Chinese food, I go to a Chinese restaurant. If I want Mexican food, I go to a Mexican restaurant. I wouldn't go to a Mexican restaurant looking for Chinese food...

 

[ScubaInChicago]

I guess what I'm wondering is if one is interested in this type of training and considering this style of diving, why not just take a reputable class which already exists from one of the aforementioned agencies rather than try to create an "incomplete" or "inferior" clone. If I want Chinese food, I go to a Chinese restaurant. If I want Mexican food, I go to a Mexican restaurant. I wouldn't go to a Mexican restaurant looking for Chinese food...

When there is money around, someone will attempt try to capitalize on it. I could see how one will try to clone the other and have heard of people brainstorming to enter the DIR market. I think it's a way that agencies farthest from DIR would attempt to keep their students (residual income) in their own circles.

Pathetic, but true :depressed:

 

[Gombessa]

FWIW, if the idea is to capitalize on some increasing popularity of "DIR" to make a buck with some cursory "specialty" class, I don't know who would be for that, or would think it would result in a useful experience for students.

But if these agencies actually adopted classes/specialties that focused on improved personal and team skills, real gas management and situational awareness that are the hallmarks of class Fundamentals, then I really couldn't be less bothered by any dilution of the DIR "brand" or identity. Even GUE doesn't go by DIR anymore, and at least originally, it seemed UTD was trying to move away from the term as well.

Any of us who really want to self-identify with these more-rigorous agencies and training regimens will undoubtedless find another way to do so.

 

[TSandM]

The question was asked as to why someone would take a possibly watered-down class from a non-GUE or UTD instructor, rather than go for the "real thing". I can think of any number of reasons. First off, worldwide the total number of instructors for both agencies is under 200. If you are not lucky enough to live where one of the instructors does, you're looking at traveling yourself, or flying an instructor in for a class. That usually requires that you find several other people who are interested, who have the same time availability you and the instructor do, and who are willing to split the costs involved. This is a BIG hurdle for many people to get over. A class that introduces the skills and gives someone an idea of what our kind of diving is about, but is cheaper, local and easier to arrange is an ideal toehold -- IF the person teaching it really knows what he's talking about.

For example, we have a well-known and well-liked instructor here in Seattle who really WANTED to become a GUE instructor. But his job schedule absolutely precluded him being able to attend any of the instructor development classes, because they are held at a time of year when he can't go. He is now a NAUI Tech instructor, and teaches the Elements class I mentioned. No, it isn't Fundies. Yes, it's an EXCELLENT introduction to some of the concepts, for the local recreational diver. After taking the class, they can decide whether they're motivated enough by the ideas they've encountered, to do the work to take a class from one of the more recognized DIR agencies. (This argument has lost effect since we now have two UTD instructors who are local . . . and in fact, I don't think the Elements class is being taught much now that Essentials is locally available.)

The fact is that people read about these ideas and find that they make sense and they are appealing. They often would like to pursue them further, but find the logistics more than they can work around. I honestly think the blossoming of Intro to Tech classes from so many other agencies is a direct result of the unexpected popularity of the GUE Fundamentals class. The Internet is a powerful force -- people see the videos, and they read about the concepts of minimum deco and minimum gas reserves and say, "Wow, why wasn't I taught any of this before?" and they go looking.

I'm all for a "DIR specialty" class taught under anybody's banner, so long as it is done by someone who knows what he's talking about.

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

The question was asked as to why someone would take a possibly watered-down class from a non-GUE or UTD instructor, rather than go for the "real thing". I can think of any number of reasons. First off, worldwide the total number of instructors for both agencies is under 200. If you are not lucky enough to live where one of the instructors does, you're looking at traveling yourself, or flying an instructor in for a class. That usually requires that you find several other people who are interested, who have the same time availability you and the instructor do, and who are willing to split the costs involved. This is a BIG hurdle for many people to get over. A class that introduces the skills and gives someone an idea of what our kind of diving is about, but is cheaper, local and easier to arrange is an ideal toehold -- IF the person teaching it really knows what he's talking about.

For example, we have a well-known and well-liked instructor here in Seattle who really WANTED to become a GUE instructor. But his job schedule absolutely precluded him being able to attend any of the instructor development classes, because they are held at a time of year when he can't go. He is now a NAUI Tech instructor, and teaches the Elements class I mentioned. No, it isn't Fundies. Yes, it's an EXCELLENT introduction to some of the concepts, for the local recreational diver. After taking the class, they can decide whether they're motivated enough by the ideas they've encountered, to do the work to take a class from one of the more recognized DIR agencies. (This argument has lost effect since we now have two UTD instructors who are local . . . and in fact, I don't think the Elements class is being taught much now that Essentials is locally available.)

The fact is that people read about these ideas and find that they make sense and they are appealing. They often would like to pursue them further, but find the logistics more than they can work around. I honestly think the blossoming of Intro to Tech classes from so many other agencies is a direct result of the unexpected popularity of the GUE Fundamentals class. The Internet is a powerful force -- people see the videos, and they read about the concepts of minimum deco and minimum gas reserves and say, "Wow, why wasn't I taught any of this before?" and they go looking.

I'm all for a "DIR specialty" class taught under anybody's banner, so long as it is done by someone who knows what he's talking about.

Exactly. And still it doesn't have to be a reduced version of UTD Essentials or GUE Fundamentals. It could be a competitive class in terms of quality.

 

[ScubaInChicago]

Exactly. And still it doesn't have to be a reduced version of UTD Essentials or GUE Fundamentals. It could be a competitive class in terms of quality.

And where do you suppose the qualified instruction comes from? My LDS, who is also a c-card mill, can't stand DIR or what it stands for....Once his precious agency starts to offer the specialty am I to believe that he's qualified because he has taught so many students and instructors?

I don't think so......

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

And where do you suppose the qualified instruction comes from? My LDS, who is also a c-card mill, can't stand DIR or what it stands for....Once his precious agency starts to offer the specialty am I to believe that he's qualified because he has taught so many students and instructors?

I don't think so......

Those are two separate issues.

The standards come from the agency. I believe TDI/SDI, NAUI, or whatever respectable agency can easily come up with high standards for a DIR Diver Specialty class they want to add to their portfolio of courses. Then the agency can arrange for a workshop for its instructor trainers and evaluators, who will train the instructors accordingly.

The issue you're pointing out is mainly a quality assurance one. It holds true for any class, not just DIR-related ones. Please take into consideration that the number both of UTD and GUE instructors is less than 100 in the whole world, which makes quality assurance easy. On the other hand, TDI/SDI has something like 15,000 instructors.

If you don't believe the instructor is qualified to teach the class, discard him. Try finding another instructor.