DIR controversy?

[Ben_ca]

September 16th to 20th or around there. During the week. Some of the diving is in local lakes. You should come out, the DIR guys here are nice guys...

Unlike all those other DIR guys huh?

Have fun in fundies... make sure to give us a full report

 

[Diver Dennis]

Actually I have never met one of those "other" DIR guys in person Ben. Only here and only a couple of them. I'll post a report and pictures.

 

[JeffG]

Actually I have never met one of those "other" DIR guys in person Ben. Only here and only a couple of them. I'll post a report and pictures.

Tell Dan that you are taking fundi's so that you can be a better solo diver...that should get him going

 

[Diver Dennis]

My LDS guys know I am and they were laughing about it. We were discussing that fundies can make you a better diver in general and that goes to solo as well. I probably won't mention that in class though. If I do I'll tell him you said it...

 

[dherbman]

I'm sure that there will be pictures.

Count on that.

 

[minnesota01r6]

OK, I'm just about done beating this dead horse since you all seem to forget what you've posted 3 pages before, but I'll try one last time to jog someone's memory.

TheRedHead - I originally stated that I thought the location of a backup reg should be universal, so that OOG with "standard" rec equipment would be universal. You then stated that OOG was the result of a poorly thought out dive. This all had to do with buddy breathing until somehow you decided I lacked enough experience to realize A) what my sac rate is or B) how to calculate Rock Bottom or C) not to loose my buddy; all of which I know. I also know that OOG without a buddy is either the result of poor dive planning OR a series of terrible circumstances, or a bit of both.

Again, the entire premise of my posts was to point out that the argument by Thalassamania that DIR is a better system of diving because of the standard way that air shres are conducted is a fallacy because if DIR divers are diving with non-DIR divers, there is MORE variation in equipment, rather than less. Unfortunately, the DIR crowd could not come to terms with this and felt the need to reply that the hypothetical situation was worthless and so inconceivable that it did not merit answering. Again, I was merely trying to point out that DIR has introduced MORE variation to the diving community as a whole, rather than reduce it. (but, this can be a good thing!) Furthermore the entire argument is flawed because as others have stated, an OOG diver will go for your primary.

//ok, it's dead

 

[Kim]

//ok, it's dead

Wanna bet?

 

[lamont]

Again, the entire premise of my posts was to point out that the argument by Thalassamania that DIR is a better system of diving because of the standard way that air shres are conducted is a fallacy because if DIR divers are diving with non-DIR divers, there is MORE variation in equipment, rather than less. Unfortunately, the DIR crowd could not come to terms with this and felt the need to reply that the hypothetical situation was worthless and so inconceivable that it did not merit answering. Again, I was merely trying to point out that DIR has introduced MORE variation to the diving community as a whole, rather than reduce it. (but, this can be a good thing!) Furthermore the entire argument is flawed because as others have stated, an OOG diver will go for your primary.

//ok, it's dead

DIR didn't introduce any more varation into the diving community that wasn't already there before it. GI3 didn't invent the long hose.

 

[Rick Inman]

Again, I was merely trying to point out that DIR has introduced MORE variation to the diving community as a whole, rather than reduce it.

You can't possibly think that "standardizing" causes "more variation". That's an oxymoron.

Ever see a random group of non-DIR divers get together? You get long octos and short octos and Air 2's and octos in pockets and balls and clips or just hanging, and ponies with regs stuck in every possible location. No two divers seem to do it the same. Introducing DIR standardization into the mix does not add variation to an already random cluster of mixed messes. If anything, it simplifies and clarifies things.

Wanna bet?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I must say this has all been absurdly entertaining ...

Which also makes the poster's complaint **to which I originally responded** that the octo being stored in the golden triangle makes for bad OOG breathing all that more absurd, because the diver who has it stowed (wherever it is in the triangle) presumably would know where it is, and the OOG buddy would grab the primary.

How would you know? How many real-life OOG situations have you actually been involved in? Just curious what qualifies you to call someone with thousands of dives worth of experience ... someone who's taught scuba diving for a living ... "absurd". What experience do you draw on to base that conclusion?

RedHead - yes, it was absurd the moment someone suggested that a lack of a uniform place to put an octo was a major downfall of classical rec training since an OOG diver will go for the primary anyway (see above). It became more absurd when you said "I think OOG is the result of a poorly thought out dive. We should be taught how NOT to run out of gas in the first place."

Well, we can theorize all we want ... but based on my experiences, the lady is right on the money. Every OOG or LOG diver I've ever had to deal with got themselves into that situation through poor planning, and a basic lack of knowledge of what constitutes proper gas management. What about your experiences? Do you calculate rock bottom ... or even turn pressure ... as part of your dive plan? If not, why not? Do you even know what your SAC rate is? Or why you might want to know? If you don't have good answers to those questions, you are one of the people she's talking about.

Oh ... and FWIW ... the most common response I've seen from someone who suddenly realizes they don't have enough gas left to make it to the surface is to swim toward you, eyes wide as saucers, holding their console out in front of them ... like they expect you to somehow make the gauge read higher. When you see that person swimming toward you, grab whichever reg you wish to donate and hold it out where they will reach it first ... the last thing you want is for them to be groping around with your gear.

FWIW part II ... I have never ... NEVER ... had someone who was OOG/LOG attempt to pull a regulator from my mouth. Have you?

Johhnthan - see the posts where lamont called thinking about contingencies "worthless" because his training would never allow him to get in that situation.

No ... actually, he said that the confluence of events that you described would be so statistically improbable as to make planning for them all to occur at once to be "worthless". Do you plan for what you would do if you were struck by lightning?

Lamont - I asked a simple question about OOG between a DIR and non-DIR diver. It has been perverted by your dodging to the point where responding to your posts has now become "worthless"

No one is dodging your question. Frankly, your lack of understanding about the topic makes it rather difficult to respond to your questions ... because you base them on preconceptions that have no basis in reality. I don't mean that as an insult ... but it is very evident that you lack even basic knowledge of the topic. If you want better answers, you need to ask better questions ... any law student should understand that concept.

Slow down ... suspend your assumptions ... and listen. You are talking to people with thousands of hours more experience than you have. If you give them a chance, they might be able to help you learn something.

Arguing with them and calling them "absurd" is ... well ... rather absurd ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)