DIR and SPG

[Rainer]

Don't raise it under your arm to view it. Bring it around over the top of your arm when reading it and it will be sufficient in length.

Should have thought about that. Is this what e/o else is doing? Coming under the arm definitely wasn't affording enough length, but I'll try bringing it around as you suggest on the next dive. Thank you all for the many suggestions. I think I'll give the 24" hose a few more dives, and just continue to practice cliiping on and off. I've been frustrated with how slow it's going, but I'll keep at it. Thanks, again.

 

[Ben_ca]

Ranier,
Sign up for Fundies... Better to learn to "do it right" the first time before you pick up bad habits from Scubaboard

 

[Rainer]

Ranier,
Sign up for Fundies... Better to learn to "do it right" the first time before you pick up bad habits from Scubaboard

I have every intention of doing so, but I have my dissertation to finish by the end of May, so will need to wait about six months. It's either risk picking up a bad habit for six months, or continuing with something truly problematic.

 

[*Floater*]

Standardization

I think this is the real answer. Maybe GI3 and JJ tried the SPG on inflator approach too and found some problem with it, but it may just be that they had various roughly equal options and had to pick one for the sake of standardization. For example, with the safety equipment in the right thigh pocket and utility equipment in the left or vice versa you have some advantages and disadvantages with both approaches which GUE admitted, but they felt it necessary to pick one to standardize it so they went with the former placement.

I do recall that George or JJ on one of the DIR tapes emphasized that the HP hose should run straight down from the reg to the hip d-ring (on doubles) so as to be exposed to as little stress as possible.

 

[Rainer]

I think this is the real answer. Maybe GI3 and JJ tried the SPG on inflator approach too and found some problem with it, but it may just be that they had various roughly equal options and had to pick one for the sake of standardization. For example, with the safety equipment in the right thigh pocket and utility equipment in the left or vice versa you have some advantages and disadvantages with both approaches which GUE admitted, but they felt it necessary to pick one to standardize it so they went with the former placement.

I do recall that George or JJ on one of the DIR tapes emphasized that the HP hose should run straight down from the reg to the hip d-ring (on doubles) so as to be exposed to as little stress as possible.

Obviously standization is crucial, my question was simply why this method (attach to hip D-ring) and not another method (running down along the inflator hose) became the standard. That is, by itself, standardization cannot be the answer to my original quesion. It certainly could be the answer if both methods were equally valid (i.e. one method has to be chosen), but I doubt both methods are equalll valid, so was curious as to the pros/cons of each.

 

[*Floater*]

Obviously standization is crucial, my question was simply why this method (attach to hip D-ring) and not another method (running down along the inflator hose) became the standard. That is, by itself, standardization cannot be the answer to my original quesion. It certainly could be the answer if both methods were equally valid (i.e. one method has to be chosen), but I doubt both methods are equalll valid, so was curious as to the pros/cons of each.

Here's what George had to say about the SPG on the inflator idea (WARNING: Do not read if you are easily offended by offensive, over the top, colorful rants):

This is bull****. For one thing there is no reason to be constantly looking at a pressure guage unless you are deep air diving - this post of yours is a dead giveaway that this is what you do.

This mentality is NO different than constantly looking at your watch while smoking pot, and for EXACTLY the same reasons.

Secondly , this is one more short-sighted, ill thought out attempt to pervert a system that you have not bothered to understand at all.

First, let's lose the wrod "hogarthian" - this is not the system we use.

Now, to put a pressure guage on your inflator hose is to constantly flex the stiff hp hose everytime you move anything or add or delete gas from your wings - not too smart.

It also adds stiffness to the hose, and if you look closely, the hose will seek its position for ease of dumping WITHOUT moving the position of the body - it will not do that with a hp hose attached to it, and the end of the stiff hose is going to be sticking out all of the time or
intefering with eveything else. The easiest thing is to bend the inflator back on itself and press the deflate button.

The stage bottles are attached to the d-ring that houses the bungee to hold the inflator hose, and to add a lolipop guage in there ( or anything else) invites constant tangle and will end up causing the inflator or deflator to get pressed by the bottles and anything else that gets near it, while the protruding end of the guage will catch everything that passes it, interfere with your backup lights which are hanging there, and interfere with the operation of your stage bottles and the gear on the bottles.

The hp hose needs to be straight and have a large radius when bent to view the guage - so as not to stress out this very important hose and its swage. To have the hose in the bungee or the ring at this point means a tiny radius and constant stress. Also, spinning the pressure guage on its barrel high pressure air spool while under pressure breaks the spool at the little neck before the o-ring groove and causes the ring to let go and the guage freeflows. Only a real stroke would not know this. To view a guage in this position you either need to have lobster eyes or you need to spin it back and bend the hose - a double "no no".

The DIR hip location allows proper safe deployment , while keeping the hose straight and streamlined against the body at all times, but can be viewed while scootering without coming off of the hammer or twisting the guage.

When you come up with crap like this, please leave out the words "horgarthian" or "DIR", and merely refer to whatever "style" or "personal preferenece" you are practicing as "stroke rig", because that is what it is, and that is what it represents. Do not confuse DIR with any convolution or other bull**** - either do it, or go ahead and be a stroke all the way so that nobody wastes any dives on you.

The reason I dive with so few people is that I do not have time to deal with the perpetual cluster that ensuues when the DETAILS are blatently ignored or mutillated to the point where the dives just can't get done successfully. Why do you think that I have no aborts or excuses, only
results, and those that try to compete with us just can not get the job done? THE LITTLE DETAILS.

edit: I expanded the warning in hopes of shielding sensitive people from GI3's style.

 

[nadwidny]

Aahhh Classic George. Gotta love it. Not as many zingers as he usually gets in but a goody none the less.

This should also clear up any remaining questions the guy who started the "Why DIR is controversial" thread may have.

 

[nadwidny]

For a 3-man Team on gas sharing egress from an overhead, both the receiver and initial donor should have an idea how much backgas is left to share --you just might have to switch to the other teammate for long hose donation:
http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=2504233&postcount=12

Yes but I disagree with both the receiver and initial donor needing to know. The initial donor needs to know. The receiver doesn't. After donating the donor needs to do a bit of gas monitoring to make sure that consumption is not going faster than planned for and if it is then he makes the call for the switch. Since it's not up to the receiver to agree or disagree with the call he really has no reason to know. On longer exits a switch at the half way point should just be a given.

Of course it's probably a nice thing to let the receiver know gas status but it is not necessary.

For open water DPV Diving OOG Scenario, an SPG reading and an estimation of how much burn time you have left on your DPV Battery determines whether you can scooter back to the egress point side-by-side with gas sharing, or being towed while gas sharing --or begin immediate gas sharing ascent to Deco Stops & the surface, completing any necessary deco gas switches along the way. . .

I agree that an initial gas reading is needed, but I was trying to stay within the context of the thread asking about continous monitoring of an SPG by mounting it over the shoulder.

 

[Soggy]

Should have thought about that. Is this what e/o else is doing?

Yes. Based on primacy, this is 'the way' to do it, since it becomes necessary once you start adding a couple 40s or 80s on your left side.

 

[Dan Gibson]

There was another thread back on another board about the proper steps when you have a runaway inflator. I won't get into the whole argument, but George, JJ or someone else did mention about shutting off the flow to the wing by using a sharp bend in the low pressure inflator hose until one could shut down the right post. I do know that putting a sharp bend in a low pressure hose can shut off the supply as was demonstated by my cave instructor. Now if the HP is attached to the corrugated hose, this is certainly going to make this option really tough if not impossible in a resonable time frame.

Here's what George had to say about the SPG on the inflator idea (WARNING: Do not read if you are easily offended by offensive, over the top, colorful rants):



edit: I expanded the warning in hopes of shielding sensitive people from GI3's style.