DIR and Pony tanks?

[oversea]

delete

 

[Soggy]

The key concepts that you are missing are:

You need to find a different group of people to dive with if you have any interest in team diving

and

You are diving above your skill level if you are not 'ready' for doubles and the dives you are doing require redundancy. Besides, diving doubles is far less task loading and convoluted/confusing than diving a set of manifolded doubles.

Never mind end up solo, most do not want a buddy. The last two trips I took, not one of the more experienced divers went in (or came out) with a buddy.

As far as doubles are concerned, the experienced guys tell me to take small steps, singles and a pony are where I should be. There are supposedly trim issues involved with doubles and all sorts of other issues such as deco obligations. I am just taking it slow. In addition, I have changed to a BP/W and drysuit for the first time. While I feel very comfortable with both I don't personally think it is a good idea to add something else so soon.

 

[MHK]

Personally I don't understand the position against a pony.

What part of the various explanations don't make sense to you?

Up here in the northeast, a good portion of the boats require doubles or a pony.

Why?

Up here, most dives end up as solo.

Why? Moreover, it isn't a wise idea to solve a skill problem with equipment, that's the beginning of a mindset that we stand in startk contrast against.

I carry mine as a sling bottle and its right there should I need it. I do not need to race to my buddy and grab his backup. The more I meet the experienced divers up here, the more tell me they don't want a buddy.
My.02

As we noted earlier, we fully recognize that the DIR style of diving isn't for everyone. If you want to solo, carrying a sling bottle, by all means enjoy your dive. On this, the DIR forum, we try to explain to others how and why we do what we do. If this isn't for you, then please be safe and enjoy your dive.

Regards,

 

[oversea]

The key concepts that you are missing are:

You need to find a different group of people to dive with if you have any interest in team diving

and

You are diving above your skill level if you are not 'ready' for doubles and the dives you are doing require redundancy. Besides, diving doubles is far less task loading and convoluted/confusing than diving a set of manifolded doubles.

I realize that I shoulda kept my mouth shut as I am way outta my league here and have not a clue of what I am talking about. I guess I saw Pony and considering I think my pony works well, I chimed in. As far as the dives I am doing, they are non-penetration wreck dives to approx. 130 ft. Mostly 85-110. I am using nitrox in hp120's and carry my pony slung (for future upgrade to deco bottle). I don't believe that I am diving above my skill level, but I could be wrong.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think this question boils down to whether you subscribe to the DIR methodology.

Not a DIR flame - I will take a good idea from any source - I just don't buy it. I think the original question comes down to what you believe.

--Matt

Well, OK ... but if you don't subscribe to the DIR methodology, why are you posting in this forum?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[headhunter]

I realize that I shoulda kept my mouth shut as I am way outta my league here and have not a clue of what I am talking about. I guess I saw Pony and considering I think my pony works well, I chimed in. As far as the dives I am doing, they are non-penetration wreck dives to approx. 130 ft. Mostly 85-110. I am using nitrox in hp120's and carry my pony slung (for future upgrade to deco bottle). I don't believe that I am diving above my skill level, but I could be wrong.

oversea,

The experienced divers that you refer to are not DIR divers. This is the DIR forum and all solutions presented in a thread in this forum are supposed to be DIR solutions.

While debating against the DIR system of diving in this forum is not allowed, honest questions leading to a better understanding about why things are done the way they are by DIR divers is.

As MHK mentioned, DIR is not for everybody and that's OK. However, you may find some things that make sense. Take with you what you feel makes sense and leave the rest.

Christian

 

[MHK]

I guess I saw Pony and considering I think my pony works well, I chimed in. As far as the dives I am doing, they are non-penetration wreck dives to approx. 130 ft. Mostly 85-110. I am using nitrox in hp120's and carry my pony slung (for future upgrade to deco bottle). I don't believe that I am diving above my skill level, but I could be wrong.

Oversea,

I believe that one of the many reasons that the DIR style of diving has caught on the way it has, is precisely because of what you just wrote. Specifically, you wrote " I guess I saw Pony and considering I think my pony works well.."

More often then not ad hoc ideas such as "ponys" or "ankle weights" or some other such less efficient idea seem to "work well" until a more efficient explanation is provided. Many of us that adopted a DIR mindset have all previously used ideas such as "ponys" or "ankle weights" and many of us even resisted DIR initially. However, if you put the rhetoric aside, and judge the DIR systems solely on it's merits, then no other system in diving comes even close.

Where the anti-DIR crowd gains some modecum of success, is to invent trolls or sockpuppets to continue to start cyber wars. Then once anyone on the DIR side of the aisle bites, the anti-DIR crowd spends it's day whinning that the DIR people are mean, blah, blah, blah..

The fact is, the moderators of this list do a real good job of keeping that stuff out of here, but sometimes a troll or two sneaks by so that is why you see suspicion aimed towards the original poster. Especially since his question has been asked often, and could have been searched easily prior to posting and the fact that several posters answered his question, but he still was claiming he didn't know "why"..

If you have questions, we'll answer them, but bear in mind the northeast coast has a style of diving that many of us are familiar with but rejected for a safer and more efficient style of diving known as DIR..

Hope that helps.

 

[lamont]

Just remember that in the GUE educational system, you would not be using a stage/deco bottle until Tech 1 due to the additional skills of managing the hosing and OOG procedures with a stage/deco. Often simplier will present you with fewer potential complications than adding more gear.

Yeah, that's sort of what I was trying to get at with all the gas switching issues, it is creating a gear complexity issue instead of solving the problem with better teamwork and skills...

 

[lamont]

You can't possibly think this is true Soggy....The only way you could even match the time would be if you were never - not even for a single second at any point from splash to exit - less than an arms reach from a buddy's reg - with night vision goggles (if diving at night). I could go on with this but I think you get the point. This is precisely my argument against the DIR response to the pony bottle. You could not possibly dive with a buddy in a way that would enable the advantages of a pony bottle.

--Matt

Yeah, but when you need it most, the pony second will have gotten snagged, pulled out of its holder and have been trailing behind you free flowing. Now your pony is empty. Where is your buddy?

That's why if you want this level of redundancy you need a long hose and doubles. That configuration puts all of the regs up near where you are going to notice if anything free-flows or blows and you'll never snag your second stages and get them out of place.

 

[melfox26]

You can't possibly think this is true Soggy....The only way you could even match the time would be if you were never - not even for a single second at any point from splash to exit - less than an arms reach from a buddy's reg - with night vision goggles (if diving at night). I could go on with this but I think you get the point. This is precisely my argument against the DIR response to the pony bottle. You could not possibly dive with a buddy in a way that would enable the advantages of a pony bottle.

--Matt

Again, this is the DIR forum. If you have issues with the DIR answers to questions that were posted in this forum, take them elsewhere, don't argue with the answers that were intended for the recipient. We don't need more trolls in here.


Mel