Question Different tanks for SM and CC bailout?

[Dsix36]

For CCR bailout I have all my tanks rigged the same with the same valves. I can put them on either side or use them as stages. I don't get OCD about where the regs are as long as I can get to them if needed

 

[rjack321]

We need to fix that problem! I am mostly concentrating on deep cave diving now, and will be more than happy to share the passion with a few very qualified buddies. Our Meg crew is going to Eagle's Nest at least once per month. It is a polished operation that has been several years in the making.

@PfcAJ took me to Eagle's once a number a years ago now (~2017). It was a fun dive but the deco (4hrs) to exploration (0 hours, 0ft new passage) ratio is all out of wack for me. Also not into travelling to FL anymore for safety & solidarity reasons. It's a nice cave, just not worth it as a dive for me.

Perhaps we can start a new discussion on butt clips, but I am curious why you'd clip a 100% to your butt. I tried that in OW and did not enjoy the tail.

Mostly because if I have a 3x large 7.25 or 8" cylinders up front L/R SM and an 80 of deeper deco-ish gas underslung on the left, I run out of room. The only place left is to leash the 40 on my butt rail

Also, am I the only one who OCDs on valve / regulator placement? For 21/35, I need two bottles with mirrored valves, as sometimes 21/35 will sit on the left and sometimes it will sit on the right. I know, first world problems.

I use L/R valves on some but not all of my tanks when SM with a BM CCR. I'm curious why you'd have a 21/35 on the right? 10/10 times in a cave my L/R gases are the same. In open water my right tank is pretty much always the 50%. If 21/35 is my deepest BO it's on the left. If it's an intermediate deco gas it's also on the left just underslung the 12/65 or 15/55 in the L SM tank. So the only time I'd have 21/35 on the right would be a 21/35 cave dive when I also have it on my left too

 

[mr_v]

@rjack321 - 21/35 will ride on left or right depending on what else I have going on and the dive profile. If I have two 15/55 on my left, then 21/35 will go on my right. I am consolidating tanks as we speak so there is a good chance that I'll change the approach.

 

[tbone1004]

Howdy,

I am in the market for new tanks and wondering if ya'll have different setups for SM and bailout. Logic - some tanks will be great for SM but too heavy for bailout and vice versa. Note, the question is about the bottles you'd carry, not stages/safeties.

Looking for deep bailout mixes, so 15/55 - 10/70. I am inclined going with steel galvanized tanks like LP85s (either Faber or Worthy) or PST 104s.

Several assumptions:

- My CCR is properly weighted - if I ditch all bottles I will probably be neutral or slightly negative, depending on accessories
- I won't ditch the tanks when they get close to empty
- Dives requiring these bottles will be with a DPV

However, I am open to other opinions. Thank you!

For open water, you shouldn't be sidemounting OC unless absolutely necessary, but for open water everything should be AL80's for dilout bottles. A "heavy" style rack with LP50's or AL40's is more ideal vs. sidemounting bailout, but AL80's for everything in open water.

For deep cave I use the same bottles that are rigged the same. Set your backmount harness up to handle sidemount bottles whether that is with a butt plate from Dive Rite or drop d-rings on the waist. My CCR backplate has drop d-rings for lower attachment points and loop bungees for the top and these are spaced the same as my sidemount rig so everything moves back and forth without issue.
I primarily use Faber LP120's as they are less negative than LP85's and give you more than enough radius for most non-exploration dives. I do have a set of 85's that I could use for smaller caves but I prefer the LP120's buoyancy characteristics, especially with helium and I'm also a big dude so they dive well for me. @cerich actually thought they were 85's on me a few years ago when we were diving together.
I would not recommend using AL80's for primary bailout as the radius is not enough and you have to carry too many bottles, the LP120's cave filled are equivalent to 2x AL80's each so it is much more practical.

 

[rjack321]

@rjack321 - 21/35 will ride on left or right depending on what else I have going on and the dive profile. If I have two 15/55 on my left, then 21/35 will go on my right. I am consolidating tanks as we speak so there is a good chance that I'll change the approach.

If I have 2x bottles of the same gas for a cave dive I would L/R those bottles. The "next" shallower gas is under-slung on the left. Remaining deco gases get nose clipped (and usually dropped fairly fast) on the butt rails. In this example case, if I am in a BO ascent I will start on the 15/55, Switch to the 21/35. Approaching the next gas (very high chance its going to be EAN50) I will rotate back to the 15/55 at the 80ft (or 70ft depending on where the EAN50 was dropped exactly) stop. Stow the 21/35 reg and swap the underslung 21/35 bottle for the butt clipped 50%. Move up to 70ft if not there already and switch to 50%.

 

[rjack321]

I primarily use Faber LP120's as they are less negative than LP85's and give you more than enough radius for most non-exploration dives. I do have a set of 85's that I could use for smaller caves but I prefer the LP120's buoyancy characteristics, especially with helium and I'm also a big dude so they dive well for me. @cerich actually thought they were 85's on me a few years ago when we were diving together.
I would not recommend using AL80's for primary bailout as the radius is not enough and you have to carry too many bottles, the LP120's cave filled are equivalent to 2x AL80's each so it is much more practical.

Same sorta. Hp130s and lp85s for me would be most common. And lp45s/50s for sure. No "deep" al80s outside of MX which isnt very deep apart from a very few systems

 

[LFMarm]

For open water, you shouldn't be sidemounting OC unless absolutely necessary, but for open water everything should be AL80's for dilout bottles. A "heavy" style rack with LP50's or AL40's is more ideal vs. sidemounting bailout, but AL80's for everything in open water.

For deep cave I use the same bottles that are rigged the same. Set your backmount harness up to handle sidemount bottles whether that is with a butt plate from Dive Rite or drop d-rings on the waist. My CCR backplate has drop d-rings for lower attachment points and loop bungees for the top and these are spaced the same as my sidemount rig so everything moves back and forth without issue.
I primarily use Faber LP120's as they are less negative than LP85's and give you more than enough radius for most non-exploration dives. I do have a set of 85's that I could use for smaller caves but I prefer the LP120's buoyancy characteristics, especially with helium and I'm also a big dude so they dive well for me. @cerich actually thought they were 85's on me a few years ago when we were diving together.
I would not recommend using AL80's for primary bailout as the radius is not enough and you have to carry too many bottles, the LP120's cave filled are equivalent to 2x AL80's each so it is much more practical.

I agree on the preference for AL80s but why the difference between cave and open water? Just curious on the difference.

When I do deep wrecks, I have similar bailout needs to caves (and can stage bottles in a similar way to cave).

 

[rjack321]

When I do deep wrecks, I have similar bailout needs to caves (and can stage bottles in a similar way to cave).

I can go straight up from pretty much any wreck I dive (down to about ~75m). At most I am a 2-4 minutes from the upline on a scooter. Hence 1 al80 of deep gas gets me to my next gas which might be 21/35 or 50% depending on the dive. 1 Al80 doesnt get me anywhere close to my next gas in a deep cave. I would need like 4+ 80s to do the horizontal component of the exit in lots of cases. So I bring hp130s + stages of deep mix.

 

[tbone1004]

I agree on the preference for AL80s but why the difference between cave and open water? Just curious on the difference.

When I do deep wrecks, I have similar bailout needs to caves (and can stage bottles in a similar way to cave).

Depends on how deep you're going and how far back you're going in a cave. I can't think of many dive profiles in open water where I would need more than 150cf of bailout bottom mix. Even at 100m that's 10+ minutes to get to the next deco mix which is quite a bit of time for conflict resolution and ascent to half pressure/your first deco bottle, your gf-lo will determine if you have a deeper deco mix.

AL80's are preferable, especially for sidemount/bailout bottles since they can be easily jettisoned if you have to/want to, so while too much gas isn't necessarily a bad thing, you do have to weigh the benefits of diving the AL80's and if that can be enough, it should be enough.

 

[mr_v]

@tbone1004 - interesting perspective on AL80. I never liked them for some reason. I do like AL72 due to how it sits, trims, and its buoyancy characteristics. Also, as I don't do much wreck diving / open water, when I do open water, I have the same bailout configuration - sidemount setup.