Did I get ripped off????

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I have seen very, very few tanks come back from hydro without some sort of residue left behind. And almost all of the steel tanks come back with a bit of rust haze that should be removed.

It is not a difficult process and we work hard to keep the costs reasonable. And I do not think an O2 cleaning fee once every 5 years is out of line.

BTW - how many of you are drying your tanks with nitrogen (and not the 78% version!)?
 
the inside of a tank and it's valve of hydrocarbons to eliminate combustion that is the result of higher concentrations AND pressure of Oxygen.

I would suggest Vance Harlow's Oxy-Hackers manual for detailed instructions (which are still pretty simple).
 
basically you're removing hydrocarbons (oil!) from the tank walls and, more importantly, the valve surfaces.

The truth is that you can transfill pure O2 into just about anything IF you do it slowly enough. What causes the "boom" to occur is localized heating, which then causes the ignition point to be reached.

When you actually do the O2 add, assuming you're using a proper whip with a needle valve, the O2 going into the tank is REAL cold. Adiabatic expansion insures that is the case; the high pressure gas expands as it leaves the needle valve, which cools it dramatically. The needle valve gets VERY cold - the gas downstream of it is too!

Don't believe me? Do a transfill with an accurate DIGITAL pressure gauge, shut the needle valve, and watch. Heh heh - the pressure comes UP as the gas comes up to room temperature! How's that? Its 'cause the O2 you put in there is COLD and as it warms up the gas expands.....

The trick is to (1) fill VERY slowly, and (2) insure that there are no small restrictions which can provide a heating point - such as the surfaces of the tank valve innards.

With that said, cleaning the tank is not a bad idea. But more important than the tank is the valve itself; I'd tear that down rather than clean the tank, because if you're going to get a "boom" its nearly certain that the valve will be the cause.

BTW, the related chickdiver incident probably was due to adiabatic heating from slamming open the valve. A bad practice, even if we get away with it most of the time. Even a properly-cleaned valve will combust if you get unlucky doing that, as the seat material can, under the right conditions, ignite. O2 tanks have warnings all over them about opening valves SLOWLY, and that's why.

There is no way to know if the valve was actually contaminated from the factory (she related that it was not actually cleaned) or whether she just got unlucky cranking it open to check it. Note that some valves are more dangerous than others in this regard; valves that are "fast-acting" are the worst, while those that are "slow-acting" are the best, as it is the delta in pressure over time that causes the problem.

(Note that for all intents and purposes any FO2 of 50% or higher may as well be pure O2. NASA has tested this pretty exensively and they found that at FO2s of 50% you may as well treat the gas as pure O2 for handling purposes. This means that your MOD 70 deco bottle of 50/50 has the same issues in terms of handling and cleaning as does the 20' bottle of 100%.)

Virtually all currently-produced valves are made with O2-compatable grease (Krytox or Christolube), and odds are that they're perfectly fine from the factory. In fact, I have yet to tear down a new scuba valve that had any sign of contamination under a black light or was lubed with silicone - and I've done a few, as I blend my own gas and as such its MY tail if I'm wrong about this.

Checking and possibly cleaning tanks periodically is a good idea, but the issue is unlikely to be hydrocarbon contamination and a "boom" or even a "fizz" in the tank itself. Its more likely to be progressive damage to the tank walls, especially steel tanks, or valve contamination - and of course you have to remove the valve to clean it, so you may as well check the tank out at the same time.
 
Genesis-

While adiabatic compression cannot be ruled out as a cause of the valve explosion that I experienced, I personally do not think that was the cause. I have been working with O2 (blending, filling, etc.) for over 10 years now. I am well aware that valves should be opened slowly, and this one was. I lean more towards some sort of valve contamination as the cause.
 
that you believe it was contaminated from the factory.

I am simply relating that I don't necessarily accept that as conclusive without evidence, and the incident itself is not evidence.

Unfortunately the evidence was destroyed in the blast, so what 'ya got left is conjecture and belief.

The fact is that the seats of essentially all valves WILL burn in pure O2 if you get them hot enough, and it takes very, very little contamination - or imperfection in the surface - to "inititate" an event. So will regulator 1st stage seats. They're made of synthetic materials, and those WILL combust. Period. Hell, teflon will burn (real well in fact) if you get it hot enough to start with, and yet transfill whips are teflon-cored, since its resistant to ignition!

The gist of my point stands, in that I'm far more concerned about the valve than the tank itself in a situation like this, but not due to the kind of incident that you had occur. Time-related contamination is a certainty with valves, just as it is with inlet filters and seats on first stages, and for the same reasons - you have a constriction in the gas flow, and a surface for the contaminents to deposit themselves on, which leads to that deposition over time. You also have a difference in the pressure of the gas across a surface, which will cause suspended things (like hydrocarbons) to precipitate out - exactly the same mechanism you see when lowering the pressure in a saturated vessel of air, and a "cloud" forms inside.

Conversely, while the tank interior sees a pressure change, it is a SLOW pressure change (at least it is unless you blow a burst disc or something similar.) The pressure change across a seat in a valve or regulator first stage is instantaneous and concentrated in one place, which double-damns you in terms of deposition of suspended contaminents.
 
TBG got a question wear you going to use it for more than a 40% mixture? if not there was no reseon to have it O2 cleaned , up to 40% you dont have to have O2 cleaned above you do , and personally if its not been contaiminated and just needed VIP should haved to been cleaned again .
vip in the middle of Nc is $15 and O2 cleaned is $40
 
that all depends on how he intended to have that Nitrox MADE.

If its being PP blended, then he (or rather, whoever is doing the mixing!) DOES care that the tank and valve are O2-clean, because if they're not then there is a potential for an ignition incident during the filling operation.

Many shops PP fill Nitrox at least some of the time.

The O2 clean/not O2 clean debate has many edges to it. If you do not have an O2 clean tank and valve then putting pure O2 into the tank for PP blending purposes is potentially hazardous. If you DO have one, and put non-hyperfiltered air into the tank, then it is no longer clean (at least technically) and you could later have an incident even though the sticker is still on the tank!

This is important for those who FILL tanks, but not necessarily (at least in the recreational realm) those who DIVE them, since recreational Nitrox is "safe" in a non-O2-cleaned tank once it gets in there. Its the "getting it in there" process that has the risk associated with it.
 
medic13- No, I had no intention of using anything more than a 40% mixture and the LDS was aware of that. In addition, I only got fills at the same LDS, with the exception of 2 fills using the "hyperfiltered" air at Dutch Springs, NJ. I also related this to the LDS, but they didn't seem to care. To make matters worse, I only filled the tank 5 times since the last 02 cleaning last year! I guess I shouln't be surprised- this is the same LDS that charged me $50 to o2 clean a TX50, also one year old and purchased from them a year prior at a ridiculous price, just because I told them I would be using it for Nitrox (less than 40%)!
 
the last comment convinced me.

O2 cleaning a reg for use with <40% Nitrox is a case of pure theft of your money, especially an Apeks.
 
O-ring once bubbled...

That's dirt cheap...$11 for a VIP and a nitrox fill or an air fill? Nitrox fills here are about $8. The cheapest shop I know of around here charges about $12 for a VIP and o2 cleaning is $50 pretty much anywhere you take it..

We charge $4.50 for VIP, 3.50 for Visual Eddy, and 8.00 for nitrox up to 40%

O2 clean a tank and valve is $22.00

And people complain about that!

Hallmac
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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