Details surrounding death of USN divers +1 year ago finally released under FOIA
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fire_diver
Contributor
Such a needless tragedy. While there were multiple failures, the ultimate one was the failure of leadership. In combat you do everything to accomplish the mission, but this was a training exercise. AS soon as the first training evolution plan was FUBARed, they should have called it off.
kwinter
Contributor
To all those who criticized my comment, I would point out that the military code also specifies that the first job of a soldier is to stay alive so he can do his job. Suicide is not heroic. Or to paraphrase General Patton, "You don't win a war by dying for your country. You win a war by making the other poor bastard die for his." Surrendering your own life out of loyalty to a friend or comrade is stupid as well as a dereliction of duty. And if you could ask the friend's opinion before he died, I'm sure he would have said the same thing.
We are all taught to monitor our gas supply. And to surface when it gets low. If this was a situation outside the military where 2 buddies went diving and the second one died because he wouldn't leave the first one and chose to run out of gas himself, I don't thing anyone would be calling it heroic. The fact that the second victim wore a uniform does not alter the fact that his actions were a stupid mistake.
We are all taught to monitor our gas supply. And to surface when it gets low. If this was a situation outside the military where 2 buddies went diving and the second one died because he wouldn't leave the first one and chose to run out of gas himself, I don't thing anyone would be calling it heroic. The fact that the second victim wore a uniform does not alter the fact that his actions were a stupid mistake.
Adam Grose
Contributor
Cruisin Home
Contributor
Kwinter please consider:
1) are the 1st responders that entered the trade center stupid? suicidal?
2) was my military college roomate, later army officer, that died in Desert Storm by taking a cluster bomb away from one of his troops who picked it up, and then it went off and killed him, stupid? suicidal?
3) what if we change the scenario, put you below and the other person was your wife, or kid? stupid? suicidal? Oh but there is love you say. Do you not think brothers in arms don't love each other? ( believe me it is one of the strongest bonds on earth, I can attest to that).
4) might we consider that until his last breath he thought he still had a chance to save his brother?
Would he have been a coward to eventually save himself? No I say.
Was he considered brave/hero for staying? Yes I say.
Should he posthumously get the Medal? Yes i say, it's the least the country can do. If he stayed trying to save your loved one you would want him to get the medal too.
For all you others out there: As an old former military officer I am afraid that Kwinter is not alone in his way of thinking. The world is changing, suddenly its everyman for himself. And that makes me sad.
1) are the 1st responders that entered the trade center stupid? suicidal?
2) was my military college roomate, later army officer, that died in Desert Storm by taking a cluster bomb away from one of his troops who picked it up, and then it went off and killed him, stupid? suicidal?
3) what if we change the scenario, put you below and the other person was your wife, or kid? stupid? suicidal? Oh but there is love you say. Do you not think brothers in arms don't love each other? ( believe me it is one of the strongest bonds on earth, I can attest to that).
4) might we consider that until his last breath he thought he still had a chance to save his brother?
Would he have been a coward to eventually save himself? No I say.
Was he considered brave/hero for staying? Yes I say.
Should he posthumously get the Medal? Yes i say, it's the least the country can do. If he stayed trying to save your loved one you would want him to get the medal too.
For all you others out there: As an old former military officer I am afraid that Kwinter is not alone in his way of thinking. The world is changing, suddenly its everyman for himself. And that makes me sad.
It wasn't suicide, It was a buddy trying to save another . As with our first responders, there are people who are willing to sacrifice literally everything to save/help someone else. I consider it a heroic act. To include the word stupid is disrespectful. We weren't there and Harris may have thought there was a fixable solution and simply ran out of time
So much for the safety of being tethered to the surface....
Something I don't understand
So according to the report they were on single tanks. What reserve would they have had?
Something I don't understand
So according to the report they were on single tanks. What reserve would they have had?
mmadiver
Contributor
These were Sailors not Soldiers, and what military code are you referring to? You've obviously never served in the Military and your perception of our honor system and camaraderie is incorrect and lacking.
Please stop spewing your misguided filth about how -you- think our military conducts itself and how -you- would react in this horrible situation.
The man attempted to rescue his dive buddy until his last breath. As a Navy diver he would of been expecting standby diver support as soon as he surpassed his bottom time. Unfortunately due to equipment failure the standby support never arrived.
Yes, I am a Navy Diver. I would not of left my dive buddy either
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