Deploying long hose in sidemount

[Mike Edmonston]

How long is the long hose? Is there more slack to deploy? If you had to pass through a restriction, is there more hose or do you just pass the bottle? (I know nothing about sidemount except there are no bands and no isolator )

Edit: thanks for posting the video...

The long hose / right reg is 7'. I have surgical tubing holding a loop similar to a stage or deco bottle on the left tank. Through a restriction, we can swap tanks, change regulators in the water provided you didn't lose your air supply, pass tanks through, use a long hose (regular air share) or breathe through our good tanks till we pass it. It gives you lots of options and time.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Mike

 

[JimC]

Well..

Ok, so I am trying to start a touch of trouble.

First trouble: You don't need formal sidemount training to dive sidemount in any location. While training or mentoring, formal or not is an asset it is not an necessity. Bad training is worse than no training.

Second trouble: A long hose is a waste of time on sidemount unless you are diving a mixed team. Should you use one, there are as many ways to stow it as there are sidemount divers. Only one of these methods can you actually deploy it "as fast" as someone on backmount. Diving with your "hands at your chest" the whole time is bunk. You are not, and you know it. If you aren't running a reel, your pulling and gliding or taking survey notes or something. Now try it in dry gloves without you're hand on the clip already. Now do it with frozen fingers. Now try it with a seized clip. You also have to be aware of which reg you're on so you know what to donate. Making choices during the only true emergency at depth is not my idea of ideal. If there is any skill that needs to be a hard wired reaction, it's this one.

I will detail what I view are the "best" ways to run a long hose on sidemount below.

Third trouble: It is clear you are very enthusiastic and its great to see you sharing. It is also clear you are new to sidemount (I hope). There are some things about your rig that would need some looking at if you decide to go small. In your video of the ballroom you have difficulty getting though a backmount area without bumping and grinding. If you would like to pursue that line of thought, PM me you're email address.

---

Ok, done stirring the trouble pot.

How I would route a long hose on sidemount:

Ideal: Run two. One bungeed to each tank. You have just recovered the "donate from mouth ease of backmount. All your hard training there is now instantly accessible and your backmount buddies don't need to know or do anything differently. In a silt out, they just take from your mouth as always. Due to the required hose wrapping and what not, this is only appropriate if you aren't going to be removing gear. But, if you're with a backmount team that shouldn't be an issue. This is the only way I can see having a donation as easily and quickly as a backmount setup.

Compromise: Set up your rig for sidemount with short hoses. Pick a tank, add a second second stage (or an h-valve and second first). Bungee that to the tank. Always donate from the tank. You retain the ability to go small and you have one response. This can get dangerous stupid if you have deco bottles on, so put it on your right side and don't carry stages there. No clips, just grab the reg and pull.. but its going to be slower and less 100% sure than donate from mouth.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

Well..

Ok, so I am trying to start a touch of trouble.

First trouble: You don't need formal sidemount training to dive sidemount in any location. While training or mentoring, formal or not is an asset it is not an necessity. Bad training is worse than no training.

Second trouble: A long hose is a waste of time on sidemount unless you are diving a mixed team. Should you use one, there are as many ways to stow it as there are sidemount divers. Only one of these methods can you actually deploy it "as fast" as someone on backmount. Diving with your "hands at your chest" the whole time is bunk. You are not, and you know it. If you aren't running a reel, your pulling and gliding or taking survey notes or something. Now try it in dry gloves without you're hand on the clip already. Now do it with frozen fingers. Now try it with a seized clip. You also have to be aware of which reg you're on so you know what to donate. Making choices during the only true emergency at depth is not my idea of ideal. If there is any skill that needs to be a hard wired reaction, it's this one.

I will detail what I view are the "best" ways to run a long hose on sidemount below.

Third trouble: It is clear you are very enthusiastic and its great to see you sharing. It is also clear you are new to sidemount (I hope). There are some things about your rig that would need some looking at if you decide to go small. In your video of the ballroom you have difficulty getting though a backmount area without bumping and grinding. If you would like to pursue that line of thought, PM me you're email address.

---

Ok, done stirring the trouble pot.

How I would route a long hose on sidemount:

Ideal: Run two. One bungeed to each tank. You have just recovered the "donate from mouth ease of backmount. All your hard training there is now instantly accessible and your backmount buddies don't need to know or do anything differently. In a silt out, they just take from your mouth as always. Due to the required hose wrapping and what not, this is only appropriate if you aren't going to be removing gear. But, if you're with a backmount team that shouldn't be an issue. This is the only way I can see having a donation as easily and quickly as a backmount setup.

Compromise: Set up your rig for sidemount with short hoses. Pick a tank, add a second second stage (or an h-valve and second first). Bungee that to the tank. Always donate from the tank. You retain the ability to go small and you have one response. This can get dangerous stupid if you have deco bottles on, so put it on your right side and don't carry stages there. No clips, just grab the reg and pull.. but its going to be slower and less 100% sure than donate from mouth.

Troublemaker

I use the short hoses when I dive with other sidemounters. I use long hose when I dive with backmount divers. You said it yourself, there are a zillion ways to set up your rig. In the ballroom video, I was testing new regs. It was not my "usual setup". you'll also notice that the SPG hoses were too long. I have since corrected that. I am 6'4" 265lbs. There are places some backmount divers go that I have to squeeze through. That does not reflect any lack of abilities. And I do mostly dive with my hands at my chest. If i'm in a restriction, than I'll have to reach for the reg. If I'm pulling and gliding, I'll have to reach for the reg. If Godzilla comes into the cave and steps on one of my buddies tanks, I might have to reach for it. See where this is going???

My point is that a sidemount diver and a backmount diver can both deploy in an OOA emergency usually before the OOA diver even reaches them. yeah I know.. What if I'm upside down in a restriction and my mask is off, and a squid is chewing on my fin, and my buddy can't fight the flow... blah blah blah. You can always find a "what if" to everything!

now who told you to get bad training or no training??? That's your opinion.
I choose to let people know that there is training out there, and that's a good idea to get it. You are against that? why?

Also, I am not always running a reel. we work as a team. Sometimes I do and yes my hands are not at my chest etc.. refer to Godzilla above!

The caves I dive in are not frozen, and I never wear gloves when in caves. You wear gloves in your caves? good for you. we don't.

You have some very good ideas on running the hoses. I would consider not even bothering with an H valve on a tank, and just adding a 7' hose with a donatable reg bungied to the existing first stage. Less points of failure IMHO. I might even adopt that philosophy. Good idea, thank you.

That is the beauty of sidemounting, there are MANY ways to do things, and we are ALL always learning. I do not know everything, but I have a pretty good idea.

Anyways, I am NOT NEW to sidemounting. I have been doing it for quite a few years. My physical size mandated a narrower rig. There are some places that you can get through, where I could not. :11:

Dive safe

Cheers

Mike

 

[JimC]

Troublemaker

You can always find a "what if" to everything!

Agreed, and agreed. I think, however, that diving with your hands on your chest is unrealistic to consider as part of your response time. It is common to need your hands for something else such that they won't be on your chest a good portion of a dive. Just as a backmounter diver isn't going to swim around with there hand on the hose beside there mouth.

now who told you to get bad training or no training??? That's your opinion.
I choose to let people know that there is training out there, and that's a good idea to get it. You are against that? why?

I'm not against training. I am against thinking that training is a requirement. No one cards for sidemount. There is good training to be had, just as there is bad training to be had. Just as in all cases, it can be very difficult to decide whats what without the experience before hand. Besides, I don't know anyone who doesn't change something every time they go sidemounting for the first, say, 50 or so dives.

The caves I dive in are not frozen, and I never wear gloves when in caves. You wear gloves in your caves? good for you. we don't.

Yeah, and OW too. We don't all have 72f water much to my chagrin. Gloves are a fact of life for most people and thus, clipping off the long hose just becomes even less of an option

You have some very good ideas on running the hoses. I would consider not even bothering with an H valve on a tank, and just adding a 7' hose with a donatable reg bungied to the existing first stage. Less points of failure IMHO. I might even adopt that philosophy. Good idea, thank you.

Thank you, and agree. I mentioned the H-Valve because lots of people do it.

That is the beauty of sidemounting, there are MANY ways to do things, and we are ALL always learning. I do not know everything, but I have a pretty good idea.

Anyways, I am NOT NEW to sidemounting. I have been doing it for quite a few years. My physical size mandated a narrower rig. There are some places that you can get through, where I could not. :11:

Dive safe

You could cut your horizontal profile in half if you brought your tanks up parallel to your body (and improve your trim) and tank removal is a pain in the *** if you're wrapping hoses around your neck.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

You could cut your horizontal profile in half if you brought your tanks up parallel to your body (and improve your trim) and tank removal is a pain in the *** if you're wrapping hoses around your neck.

Agreed, but when I dive HP130's I don't like them up too high. again, it's preference. look at my Abaco video, and you can see smaller tanks sitting up higher on me. The 130's tend to crush my A*S.:mooner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P_LGxl3eIk

Thanks for the tips, like I said. I'm always learning
Give me a shout next time you're in cave country. I'd like to dive with you.

Cheers and good diving

Mike