demands and supplies - titanium backplate

[Blackwood]

I want a beryllium backplate.

Get on it.

 

[Sadamune]

Backplates do not need to be very strong. The loads they handle are modest. Properly executed plastics will always both lighter in weight and less negative. Many "engineering" thermoplastics have a specifc gravity of 1.2~1.4. The SG of Ti is ~4.5...

Quite true, many plastics, and especially composite materials like carbon fiber reinforced plastics, have strength to weight ratios that exceed that of any alloy. It is also true that backplates do not need to be very strong in their application. However, plastic/composite materials do not have the damage tolerance that many alloys have. This may seem to be of little concern for a backplate, but heavy use over a period of many years may subject plastic/composite materials to ancillary stresses and abuse that eventually results in some kind of failure. Unlikely, yes, but possible. Just envision the abuse that military equipment receives over many years of service. Equipment gets kicked around allot.

Austenitic SS is non magnetic, unless cold worked, and that can be corrected by stress relieving. We aren't talking about spheres for a MK15, the stresses in a Scuba backplate are trivial, if you want non magnetic use plastic.

Annealing can correct for magnetization caused by cold working of austenitic SS, but dimensional distortion can result. I imagine that the cost and difficulty of annealing formed SS was the reason that the Center Section of the Mark-15.5/Mark-16 is made of glass reinforced ABS instead of SS like in the Mark 15/CCR1000. For dive gear, I think it's likely that the military would select plastic/composite components for its dive equipment where magnetic materials aren't kosher, e.g. equipment for explosive ordnance disposal. However, titanium would still be an option, especially where high strength is required without a magnetic signature. In critical applications, cost is rarely an issue for the military. After all, the Navy did choose Inconel for their rebreather spheres, a costly material in the extreme.

There are no zero failure parts.

Some parts fail more often than others.

There is no need for a heat treated scuba back plate.

Probably not, unless the backplate had to serve as an anchor or as body armour as well. Multipurpose gear is all the rage.

6/4 (or 3/2.5) is stronger than CP, but strenght is a non issue in this application.

6Al-4V is also significantly harder than CP, and thus is more resistant to abrasion. Regardless of how irrelevant some engineers find it, cosmetic appearance is an important factor in product design. Shiny sells.

Sadamune

 

[Sadamune]

I don't fully understgand why some peopole are so adamantly against it. Even if you don't see the need for the item doesnt mean theres not a market for it. Unfortunately there are not enough people going out and trying to produce items like this themselves... That is why we pay a fortune already.

I say encourage everyone that is willing to help create gear for divers by divers, it can't hurt us.

Exactly. If someone wishes to innovate, even if some people are mystified by it, then all the better. Increased choices enrich the industry. Diversity is a strength.

While the market may be quite small for a titanium backplate, there might be some profit potential in it. Good luck to those who try something new.

Sadamune

 

[cool_hardware52]

Quite true, many plastics, and especially composite materials like carbon fiber reinforced plastics, have strength to weight ratios that exceed that of any alloy. It is also true that backplates do not need to be very strong in their application. However, plastic/composite materials do not have the damage tolerance that many alloys have. This may seem to be of little concern for a backplate, but heavy use over a period of many years may subject plastic/composite materials to ancillary stresses and abuse that eventually results in some kind of failure. Unlikely, yes, but possible. Just envision the abuse that military equipment receives over many years of service. Equipment gets kicked around allot.

The basis for most of your supporting arguments is DOD applications Might benefit from using Ti. Maybe, but this dicussion centers on civilian recreational scuba, not special forces use.

After all, the Navy did choose Inconel for their rebreather spheres, a costly material in the extreme.

High pressure non magnetic spheres require exotic matierials, backplates due not.

Some parts fail more often than others.

Have you suffered premature failure of a SS or Kydex / SS backplate?

6Al-4V is also significantly harder than CP, and thus is more resistant to abrasion. Regardless of how irrelevant some engineers find it, cosmetic appearance is an important factor in product design. Shiny sells.

So do split fins and "dry snorkles"


Tobin

 

[cool_hardware52]

Exactly. If someone wishes to innovate, even if some people are mystified by it, then all the better. Increased choices enrich the industry. Diversity is a strength.

While the market may be quite small for a titanium backplate, there might be some profit potential in it. Good luck to those who try something new.

Sadamune

I have not seen anybody advocate banning Titanium Backplates, or restricking the use of Titanium in scuba gear.

It has been done before, and apparently failed to take the industry by storm. I'm sure a few sold. You can probably get one today, if you are willing to spend enough.

Capitialism is pretty efficient in identifying profit potentials.

Tobin

 

[MSilvia]

BECAUSE I CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mooner:

Funny, that's exactly the same reason I got a more practical backplate that didn't cost as much.

I'm sure we all find ourselves in a position to make foolish decisions from time to time. I just don't understand why anyone would brag about taking advantage of the opportunity, regardless of how easy it is.

 

[shugar]

I figure for the equivalent volume of a 6 lb. SS plate, the gold plate would weigh 14.4 lbs. Let's see, gold at about 660 USD the oz., 230 ounces, .....$152,000 dollars.

so where do i place an order? anyone got one on ebay? WAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Jag

 

[RJP]

BECAUSE I CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mooner:

Scuba Marketing Rule #1: "A fool and his money were lucky to get together in the first place."