DELIBERATELY overweighting students doing OW training

[Eric Sedletzky]

I had a conversation about 4 years ago with a NAUI intructor who teaches at Sonoma State.
He said the "new" way NAUI was teaching was to weight students so that they were neutral at 15 feet with 500 PSI in the tank and no air in the BC.

This is nothing new, I've been saying this for years, at least NAUI finally sees it.

 

[boulderjohn]

Several years ago I enjoyed a week of diving in Ste. Maarten, all with the same operator. I got to know the employees. One day I knew that an instructor was going to be working with a female AOW student on the dive. During the dive I saw the instructor and the student, and they were working on very, very basic buoyancy skills. When I had a chance later, I asked the instructor what was going on, and she said the student had no buoyancy skills whatsoever. She had asked for an ungodly amount of weight at the beginning of the dive. After being talked down to something more reasonable, she showed immediately that she simply did not know what to do under water.

By an incredible coincidence, I sat next to this diver on the plane flight back. She told me that she had gotten her OW certification in a shop that was the main store in a major chain in southern California. In the pool sessions, they had slapped 20 pounds of lead on her 100 pound body with a 3mm wet suit, pursuant to their policy of giving everyone 20% of their weight in lead. I expressed shock, saying I did not believe anyone could do a successful fin pivot or hover with that much weight. She said no one in the class could do either skill. She told me the instructor said that those skills were so very difficult that no one could do them, so they simply give everyone a shot at it and then move on. She said that was a policy throughout the chain, as far as she knew.

When my old friends living in San Diego decided they wanted to learn to dive, they asked about using that chain. I was terrified about what that would do to them, and I told them so. They flew to Colorado so I could train them instead. We then went to Mexico for the open water dives. (This was last week.) One day after certification we did a morning dive, and the DM noted that we were the only ones signed up for the afternoon dive. He said he would take us to a place more fitting to our skills. He did so, but at the last minute a couple with only about 20 OW dives showed up for the trip, and they really did not have the skills for it, because the dive called for more advanced buoyancy control than they were used to. My friends, the ones who were held back by these "inexperienced" divers, were on their first day of diving after certification, yet they were perceived to have skills befitting a more special site.

There was nothing magical about their instruction. They were taught the same skills that are part of every class. They were simply taught them while properly weighted, neutrally buoyant, and in horizontal trim. It is sad that this is perceived to be so radical by so may people.

 

[halocline]

I was frankly shocked to realize I had to use almost twice as much weight to do the skills comfortably on the knees. If I were properly weighted while on the knees, I kept toppling over.

For that reason, I do believe that many and perhaps most instructors overweight their students. It is not for some intentional teaching benefit--it is to keep them firmly planted on the bottom so that they can do the skills.

I've seen this many times, especially in the first few pool sessions. I remember being anchored on the pool bottom on my first session as an OW student. Another 'reason' I suspect some instructors overweight students is because they want all the students to descend easily at the beginning of the check out dives, rather than have to wait for some students who invariably have more trouble getting down. IOW, it's a concession for the group environment and somewhat a convenience for the instructor.

Now that I'm more-or-less properly weighted, when I assist with OW classes, I also have a very hard time kneeling on the bottom and so prefer to demonstrate skills while hovering. I have had an instructor object to that, believe it or not!

 

[boulderjohn]

Now that I'm more-or-less properly weighted, when I assist with OW classes, I also have a very hard time kneeling on the bottom and so prefer to demonstrate skills while hovering. I have had an instructor object to that, believe it or not!

It doesn't surprise me at all.

Even though an article (co-written by someone from PADI headquarters) about teaching students while they are neutrally buoyant from the very beginning appeared in the PADI professional journal more than 2 years ago, and even though we were able to quote statements from representatives of PADI headquarters stating in clear and unmistakable language that it is OK and actually preferable to teach students that way, in recent threads we have had some PADI instructors insist in the most belligerent language that doing so is against standards. These people insisted that PADI regularly prints articles in its professional journal, co-written by its staff, that contradict policy and standards. They insisted that a person from PADI headquarters responding to a question about standards is only expressing a personal opinion, and such a statement should be given no more weight than the opinion of anyone else. A wino on the street has as much authority in interpreting PADI standards as a member of PADI headquarters.

With such attitudes, it is not wonder that people objected to your demonstrations.

 

[mangoconchile]

I completely disagree, students should learn as early as possible to manage their buoyancy, and in the depths they were practicing to my mind the volume changes due to having more air in the BC than necessary would make that very much harder than learning to dive properly weighted from the outset.

Depends on what the OW course criteria is. During my class we spent both pool sessions going over hand signals, reg swapping, clearing masks, removing equipment, etc the entire time. When we took our open water dives(boat and shore) we pretty much did the same exercises out there too. Buoyancy seems like something that would take practice to perfect and I don't think there is enough time to cover it during the course of 4 days.

 

[Frosty]

Ok folks I have to be honest here I was playing devils advocate a bit here.
I've now dived with 9 different dive operations in the pacific as a qualified diver.Invariably Ive been on a boat with freshly minted or still training OW divers at some time.Every instructor seems to well overweight their students.
The comments in MY OP were all variations of the response I got when asking why.
From what I have seen of Padi OW training the skills required to be demo'd in the open water dives are MOST times well covered off by the end of OW dive 3 ie 3x45 minute dives.
Given overweighting is being justified by instructors I'm thinking that correct weighting and an explaination would be easilly be able to be included in the last dive.

 

[clownfishsydney]

In my experience, virtually every diver on an open water course that I see underwater is severely overweighted.

 

[Phil_C]

Depends on what the OW course criteria is. During my class we spent both pool sessions going over hand signals, reg swapping, clearing masks, removing equipment, etc the entire time. When we took our open water dives(boat and shore) we pretty much did the same exercises out there too. Buoyancy seems like something that would take practice to perfect and I don't think there is enough time to cover it during the course of 4 days.

I would still have to say that skills should be learn't and practiced neurally buoyant. I didn't train with PADI for open water/advanced OW levels but used another agency so do not have any experience of their entry level courses.

I learn't skills in shallow (very confined/benign) open water - no pool sessions and I was deliberately overweighted for perhaps one or two dives/lessons with the instructor making it clear that was just to allow me to learn the techniques without falling over or floating away, and emphasising that this was a bad thing in any other situation. After those first one or two lessons everything had to be done neutrally buoyant, and for the second level course everything (including BC removal, weight removal and replacement etc. ) had to be demonstrated holding a set depth in the water column, not on the bottom. This was done in water 15-16 deep holding depth at about 12 metres.

We had to do this repeatedly until we could remove and replace, recover regulators and so on without losing control of our buoyancy. Good buoyancy control was considered an essential part of the basic training, not bolt on through a speciality or something to be picked up later.

Now I don't want to get into a this agency is better than that argument, hence I haven't mentioned any names, because actually I think it depends as much on the instructor as the agency, I was lucky - my instructor always went the extra mile, and she and her husband have now become my friends - she is now a regular dive buddy, and I will often help her out by acting as a dive guide or DM for her.

So I think my view would be - maybe it is ok for the first lesson or two overweight - but make sure students understand why it is happening (surely this should link to discussions on buoyancy and weighting in the lessons easily), and move to proper weighting and practice of skills neutrally buoyant as soon as possible.

But I equally understand scuba is an industry and needs to turn a profit, so all agencies will often do what is necessary to make it safe for casual/vacancy type divers, whilst remaining commercially profitable, and then sell the rest as extras.

Phil

 

[supergaijin]

Beginners have very erratic breathing and can often not control themselves in the shallows where the initial training takes place. This leads to overweighting. It is compounded if training takes place in the sea where wind/waves/surge can also add to stress, increasing breathing even further.

Most (if not all) student divers are overweighted at the start of their training. Only when they learn to breathe as divers, can they begin to find their ideal weight.

It's not uncommon for me to reduce a student's 'required' weight by 2lb during the later stages of an OW course.

 

[SeaCobra]

I had a conversation about 4 years ago with a NAUI intructor who teaches at Sonoma State.
He said the "new" way NAUI was teaching was to weight students so that they were neutral at 15 feet with 500 PSI in the tank and no air in the BC.

This is nothing new, I've been saying this for years, at least NAUI finally sees it.

It may have been new to this guy, but not new to NAUI, been doing it that way for as long as I can remember.

Overweighting is not a good idea.