DELIBERATELY overweighting students doing OW training

[rhwestfall]

Its all about the instructor, and nothing more. There is a group around here that require a weight check be implemented at the beginning and end of every in water session of their training. This takes place in OW, AOW, Rescue, and modules of the MSD (with the exception of a boat or drift dive module). I was impressed......

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I agree no reason, especially in light of new PADI open water emphasis on buoyancy and trim. AFTER certification, and after substantial dive experience, I have varied weight with activity and conditions, sometimes adding a pound for photo and video dives in shallow water. But that is another issue. Confession her- i have overwighted a little for Discover Scuba students in a pool only class, until they settle down and then we trim them down to proper weighting for bouoyancy. But certification classes- we try to get the weight right on. Unsually we end up dropping a pouind or two as the student settles down, breates easier, gets acclimated to the geasr and water, etc. SO it may seem that there was earlier overweighting when in fact I believe the "proper weighting" has changed.
DivemasterDennis

 

[supergaijin]

I see no reason to 'hide' the fact that my students are overweighted for their initial class(es). I make no bones about that. However during the training process I do make efforts to get them correctly weighted as they learn to control their breathing.

Due to 'normal' beginner stress which directly affects breathing- I believe all divers will eventually reduce their weight as they learn more about their bodies underwater. I make pains to address this during training.

Excessive overweighting helps nobody and is frankly quite dangerous.

 

[boulderjohn]

From what I have seen of Padi OW training the skills required to be demo'd in the open water dives are MOST times well covered off by the end of OW dive 3 ie 3x45 minute dives.
Given overweighting is being justified by instructors I'm thinking that correct weighting and an explaination would be easilly be able to be included in the last dive.

Its all about the instructor, and nothing more. There is a group around here that require a weight check be implemented at the beginning and end of every in water session of their training. This takes place in OW, AOW, Rescue, and modules of the MSD (with the exception of a boat or drift dive module). I was impressed......

According to the PADI standards that have been in effect for at least the last couple of decades.....

1. The weight check is supposed to be part of the second confined water (pool) dive in OW instruction. This is the first time that students go to the deep end of the pool. Conversations with PADI pursuant to the article we wrote indicated that it was assumed that students would be properly weighted from then on.
2. A weight check is part of the first OW dive, and students are supposed to be as properly weighted as possible on that dive.
3. Students are supposed to work on adjusting their weighting to optimize it on each of the four dives. By the time they finish OW dive #4, they should have it dialed in.

Those are the current standards. instructors who do not do that are violating those standards. The new standards that are to begin next year will have a much greater emphasis upon this.

Yes, I agree that most new divers are overweighted, many to an almost obscene degree. Instructors who do this are in violation of standards. It is not PADI policy.

 

[Kharon]

During my OW pool sessions we were properly weighted. During the examination/certification OW dives we/I was/were grossly overweighted. It made buyancy control and ascents virtually unmanagable. It sucked. After certification, I took a lot of time with 12.9cf air remaining tanks (500 psi in an Al-80) - both rental aluminum and my own steel 72 & 80 - and got my weighting down pat. Then I worked on trim, finally getting some cam strap pockets to balance me properly. Once that was accomplished my diving has been wonderful. I feel the instructor that did the cert dives did us an extreme disservice. BTW, cert dives were cold water in Lake George, NY. The 7mm wetsuits were enough of an equipment change to cause difficulty. The overweighting compounded problems.

 

[boulderjohn]

During my OW pool sessions we were properly weighted. During the examination/certification OW dives we/I was/were grossly overweighted. It made buyancy control and ascents virtually unmanagable. It sucked. After certification, I took a lot of time with 12.9cf air remaining tanks (500 psi in an Al-80) - both rental aluminum and my own steel 72 & 80 - and got my weighting down pat. Then I worked on trim, finally getting some cam strap pockets to balance me properly. Once that was accomplished my diving has been wonderful. I feel the instructor that did the cert dives did us an extreme disservice. BTW, cert dives were cold water in Lake George, NY. The 7mm wetsuits were enough of an equipment change to cause difficulty. The overweighting compounded problems.

As someone who trains divers in cold water in a 7mm suit, I assure you it is much more difficult to get the weighting correct in such circumstances. To begin with, divers in 7mm suits have no choice but to be overweighted during the dive. They need a certain amount of weight to sink from the surface and hold a safety stop, but because of suit compression at depth, it takes a lot less weight for the dive itself. Still, the instructor should work over the 4 OW dives to make that necessary overweighting as minimal as possible.

 

[rhwestfall]

As I'll say again, its the instructor. We actually had a session in the pool using the 7mm farmer john suits, hoods, and 3 fingered gloves (yes, we too were in Lake George, and in May for our check outs) days before the open water dives to get the weighting correct, experience the changes, and become more prepared.

 

[RJP]

To begin with, divers in 7mm suits have no choice but to be overweighted during the dive. They need a certain amount of weight to sink from the surface and hold a safety stop, but because of suit compression at depth, it takes a lot less weight for the dive itself.

John, I wouldn't consider that "overweighted" at all if it's the correct amount of weight needed to safely begin, execute, and complete the dive. (suit compression at depth notwithstanding)

PS - the biggest reason I see for new OW students not getting down is not due to weighting, but because they continue to kick while trying to descend. I have them cross their ankles. Also, most have had the old "never hold your breath" thing so drilled into them that immediately after exhaling to sink initially... they INHALE deeply and come right back to the surface.

 

[Frosty]

According to the PADI standards that have been in effect for at least the last couple of decades.....

1. The weight check is supposed to be part of the second confined water (pool) dive in OW instruction. This is the first time that students go to the deep end of the pool. Conversations with PADI pursuant to the article we wrote indicated that it was assumed that students would be properly weighted from then on.
2. A weight check is part of the first OW dive, and students are supposed to be as properly weighted as possible on that dive.
3. Students are supposed to work on adjusting their weighting to optimize it on each of the four dives. By the time they finish OW dive #4, they should have it dialed in.

Those are the current standards. instructors who do not do that are violating those standards. The new standards that are to begin next year will have a much greater emphasis upon this.

Yes, I agree that most new divers are overweighted, many to an almost obscene degree. Instructors who do this are in violation of standards. It is not PADI policy.

Boulderjohn-feedback on here and from my personal observation says that the standards are being Interpreted by instructors.
paraphrasing the feedback. "correct weighting for a diver on their very first dive/dives will be different for the same diver as few as four dives later."
Is that a bad thing?

---------- Post added October 18th, 2013 at 10:25 AM ----------

the biggest reason I see for new OW students not getting down is not due to weighting, but because they continue to kick while trying to descend. I have them cross their ankles. Also, most have had the old "never hold your breath" thing so drilled into them that immediately after exhaling to sink initially... they INHALE deeply and come right back to the surface.

So they THINK they don't have enough weight and add weight.

 

[halocline]

It's one thing to have a couple extra pounds for the pool sessions and maybe even the first check out dive. It's quite another to be 6-8, even 10 lbs over.

The reality is that many OW students will require slightly more weight during their check out dives than they would with the same exposure protection after, say, 50 dives. The key word is 'slightly' not 'double'!