Deep Diving on Air

[Adobo]

We are the only species of animal that actually protects the week and or stupid. We need to let Darwins theory's do there work and not mess with nature.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[boulderjohn]

IThe real problem with society today is we protect people from themselves, We are the only species of animal that actually protects the week and or stupid. We need to let Darwins theory's do there work and not mess with nature.

Homer's Odyssey had a nice rebuttal to this several thousand years ago.

For example, in the Cyclops section, Odysseus describes these beings from the start as subhuman brutes because they do not work together to protect one another. Despite the enormous size and strength of the Cyclops, Odysseus and his men are able to overcome him because they work together, with some of the men taking on additional risk to protect the others. Odysseus himself, as their leader, puts himself at greatest risk at the final escape, but only after he has helped his weaker and less able men escape first. The entire Odyssey is a series of such learning experiences. After he has had all of these learning experiences, a much wiser Odysseus returns to his home disguised as a poor thes. Thes is usually translated into beggar in English because there is no equivalent in our society--it was actually a lower level of social status than our society can imagine. In that disguise, Odysseus is able to judge the level of civilization among those who have overrun his house by seeing how well they treat and help the lowest level of humanity known to them.

By the way, many other animals help the weak among them. I heard an amazing story from a boat captain in New Zealand. He accidentally ran into an orca that was surfacing, creating a fatal wound. Two other orcas assisted the injured whale to the surface so it could breathe. They kept him up while a boat came out to assist, carrying a doctor who works with these animals. She climbed on the back of one of the supporting orcas, who clearly knew she was there to help and who clearly were assisting her so she could perform an examination. She realized that the wound was fatal, though. Within a weak, every known orca pod in the wide region had arrived there in Aukland harbor, apparently for some sort of a funeral service.

So, in summary, many animals work in harmony to protect their species, and even so, for thousands of of years most theorists have considered failing to do so to be subhuman behavior.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Alrighty when typing last post I reached for phone to send email to buddy as the sun was coming out and it vibrated in my hand and he wanted to meet in 40 mins, so had to go for a dive.

I have not read all post and am washing gear and filling tanks now, but not sure where devon was going like I don't do these dives so I grabbed dub 102's and decided to go investigate more on my little cave I found a week or so ago if vis was good. So this is my buddy jan I went down with him the surf was 4' and white caps, but vis was great right at 10' notice 2910 psiso there he is going off at 60' and then I turned cam to vid and made my ascent down the other thing that I was to do on this dive is find the deep female lings and check for preg as we have no egg mas anywhere on this dive site. so on here is on my descent up, notice 1920 psi at 86' and look at the vis at 90' 67' now approaching 10' stop.


. So not sure if you were calling me out on doing these dives devon so here you go, my housing is 180' rating, so I never take any pics or vid at 200' or more, but did this for you.

 

[DevonDiver]

As far as rebuttals go... I wonder what language Aqua-Andy would currently be speaking, if some people hadn't stepped forward in the past to defend the 'weak'.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

This is wrist BT, 1' less from counsoleView attachment 112173 And Hank check it out my duck friemd come to play for almost a minute got this pic and agreat vid as it just kept going around me. View attachment 112174 sorry I just can't get pic from go pro on the 90' one but this is same spot and might be same one as they live in bluff area.

 

[DevonDiver]

...not sure if you were calling me out on doing these dives devon so here you go, ...

Nope, I wasn't calling you out, or disputing your experience.

I was merely completely disproving your claim that "to argue that deep air is unsafe is not an argument to anyone that has dove deep air. Once you dive 200' on air you realize how easy this is and now when your on your vacation dives if there is a dive to 180' you are confident as hell to make the dive"

I've dove well beyond 200' on air and those experiences taught me how difficult it was.

I've dove deep air and, with hindsight and self-assessment, do argue that deep air is unsafe.

I've dove to 280' on air and don't feel that false confidence gained from conducting deep air dives has any bearing on actual safety when conducting shallower dives.

I also wanted to answer your enquiry "to see how many SB members spoke up of there deep air knowledge, there were enough for me to say that they are here on SB but do not want to argue with divers that can not pass the fear that they whine that it is dangerous", as I have dived deep air and from that experience, do believe it is dangerous, especially for individuals who aren't specifically trained, equipped and experienced to conduct those dives.

I also wanted to blow this claim out of the water: "All that is opposed to Deep Air has never pass the fear of it". I presented myself, my experience and my views as evidence. If we're gauging 'fear'... then I'd also add that several of my 280' dives were also solo and conducted at night. I'd proposition that these weren't the actions of a man limited by fear.

Nonetheless, I still feel that such dives (and shallower) contain numerous risks that a diver without specialist training and equipment could not reasonably mitigate. That makes them unreasonable risks.

And hopefully, this claim also: "...and they are not a safe dive buddy cause of it."

As far as being a 'safe dive buddy' goes... I've had to assist several divers who've been dangerously incapacitated by narcosis within recreational (<40m) depth ranges. Without my assistance, at least one of them may have died (heavily narc'd and non-functional during a complex 36m deep wreck penetration). Those experiences, as a 'rescuer' also reinforce to me the dangers of deep air diving.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Ok fair enough devon.

And sorry NWG you posted 240' here so thought it was air.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

KWS regarding your ?, I answered on my dive profile from todays dive. I do and will dive single tanks to 180'ta 200' here in PNW and always in warm water. I have navy table memorized in battery failure and know I can leave my deco before computer say's I can, but i enjoy my shallow decos.

As far as buddy i do not generally dive deep with any one except when taking them down for there first time.

Sure there was a few times when me and my wife did many deep dives, a free flow in superior in a wreck, non issue really.

And the best one was when I had my long time dive buddy that I do salvage dives with and a whole mess of Great Lakes Dives with, we were down getting shrimp, he sat his gun down and he was busy collecting shrimp at night and I seen he popped his head a little and looked at his gauge. I was laughing looking at him wanted me to give my reg we both had air2, he finally grabs reg, I swam to gun he wanted up in around 100' or so, got gun and ascended with 750 psi. at the surface he F the gun I was still laughing, he says whats so funny. I told him with all the Ice dives getting cars snowmobile's bob cat's clearing ice rinks, to planes in muck to retrieving dead divers on the deep wrecks, you have a hunting addiction, deer hunting and elk hunting he will fill every ones tags if they want him to, bow hunting, fishing always reeling them in. you were so caught up on having shrimp for dinner you never checked your gauge., this was the last dive of 2 weeks from diving all the divable wrecks around vancouver island.

So there was some close one's I suppose but for me it is a non Issue from all the diving I have done in the past.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

WOW DevonDiver you must have some pretty big toes seeing I was able to step on them and make you all poo poo face from half way across the world:mooner:. What I meant about protecting stupid people was the ones that refuse to learn from others mistakes, refuse to take advice from other people, and just have no common sense. For instance there is a woman in my town suing Walmart because she had her finger torn off in the store in our town. Now for the facts, she wanted something off the top shelf, there was a sign at eye level saying not to climb on the shelves and to please ask for assistance, she climbed the shelves to get the item she wanted and her foot slipped off the shelf and her ring got hung up on the shelf and tore her finger off. Yes sad it is but, she was warned by the sign not to climb the shelf, she did not heed the warning so she has to live with the consequence of her decision. I bet if enough people do something like this instead of holding the people accountable for there actions the state or federal government will force the stores to build shelves that can't be climbed, at the cost of higher prices that will cost everyone not just the people stupid enough to follow the rules or have any common sense.

PS: Devin cauld yu plase chec my spalling ann carect it fore mee.

 

[boulderjohn]

In my own deep air diving (and it has been a few years since my last one), I never passed 200 feet. My deepest was into the hull of the San Francisco Maru (181 feet), where I had the same experience that was described recently by someone else. I was disappointed that I did not see some of the artifacts I had been told were there. Luckily I was right next to a friend shooting video the who time, so I later got to see those artifacts on the video--they had been right in front of me the whole time.

I have a number of other dives in the 130-150 foot range. On one of them, a fairly long dive followed by staged decompression, I noticed a slight free flow on my regulator. I carefully adjusted the knob to eliminate it while still giving myself the best possible air flow, congratulating myself on being so clear headed, with no signs of narcosis. Then my buddy flashed me to try to find out why I was breathing from my alternate instead of my primary regulator. I had no idea until then that I was.

All my deep air dives were uneventful. The insidious thing about my narcosis was that I didn't feel a thing. Although I felt perfectly fine, my thinking was obviously impaired, and I am glad I didn't have to deal with something that required a higher level of concentration and alertness.

Additionally, in all those dives I had redundant air available, a clear deco plan, a backup to that plan, a buddy, etc. With the concern about narcosis, I much prefer to dive with an appropriate level of trimix. If the right situation were to develop, though, I would probably do reasonably deep air again, but it would take unusual circumstances. In such a case, I would make darn sure that, once again, I had taken every other safety precaution. Most importantly, I have had extensive training that has prepared me for handling emergencies that can occur at those depths. I think I can reflexively deal with such problems, even with some level of narcosis.