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Deep Diving on Air
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The same course which teaches PPO2 also teaches O2 CNS Clock exposure and Partial Pressure of Nitrogen amongst other things. N becomes narcotic around a PPN of 4 or just over 130'. 225' has a PPN of over 6.
To echo an earlier post - My friend dived deep air and he described the bottom after the first dive as "all moving about". The same dive later on trimix, and he saw the bottom was swarming with eels. He said he would never do deep air again.
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Bob i hope you know i said that in jest. at least as far as the luny reasons that tell some people it is ok.
To quote a saying from the 90's tek conferences. " Dive as Deep as you Deserve "
It looks like my post 460 may have been taken too seriously. I was poking fun at the both the lame excuses that those who do deep diving and the society that fosters the ignoring of limits.
The OP seemed to be specific about 225" which is 1.6. Makes me think that many believe that o2 issues are not a consequence so long as you stay below 1.6.
I was also referencing our society that over reacts to any problem in the form of overprotection. And that overprotection tends to make any and all rules and cautions to be ignoored as unreal limitations.
So many think they can not go beyond 60" as an bow without aow certs. those that finally get them find that there is no magic on the other side of the 60" line and begin to ignore the warnings of going deep as if those cautions are no more valid than the 60'. It is human nature to justify it as some lds trying to make a buck. Or some lawyer setting rules so his client will be suit free. Or some ins co setting ins conditions that will make them claim free.
We see this daily on the news and everytime we go into an lds. The signs that say for your safety....bla bla bla. MOst of the time is has nothing to do with safety. If they said to "In compliance of fed regulations there is no smoking" it would be much better than "For your safety" Smokers believe it is safe .. so the rule(to them) is en excuse policy, or a law to force a no smoking agenda. Look at every drug commercial and its associated disclaimer so the program or the tv station is not acccountable for the ad content. Seeing this every day subliminally tells us all rules are BS. You come to this board and no matter what the topic is, you will find a preticular demography of divers who will nit pick a phrase and preach doom and gloom. Any one who has done a controversial act has now been reinforced in the viewed fact that the gloom and doom preached is hypothetical and not real cause they either know someone who does it, or have done it them selves.
I ran into a couple who did deep air using single al80's pumped to 4K. Would I? ..... no. But to them the reasons are its a bounce dive so no harm done. The 4K in the tank is ok because of a 4:1 safety factor or it does not exceed Hydro presure. Do i condone it NO do i understand it YES, Would i dive with them NO.
It is normally only after further training that one sees the ignorance of past behaviors. Our system creates these behaviors and oks the path for the young indestructable's to do the things like deep air to 200-300 ft.
For every one that gets hurt , there are 100 more that escaped harm. And the vote is 100 for its ok and the other 1 who cant vote.
Again , sorrry for my posts appearance of deeeeeeep air diving approval.
The OP seemed to be specific about 225" which is 1.6. Makes me think that many believe that o2 issues are not a consequence so long as you stay below 1.6.
I was also referencing our society that over reacts to any problem in the form of overprotection. And that overprotection tends to make any and all rules and cautions to be ignoored as unreal limitations.
So many think they can not go beyond 60" as an bow without aow certs. those that finally get them find that there is no magic on the other side of the 60" line and begin to ignore the warnings of going deep as if those cautions are no more valid than the 60'. It is human nature to justify it as some lds trying to make a buck. Or some lawyer setting rules so his client will be suit free. Or some ins co setting ins conditions that will make them claim free.
We see this daily on the news and everytime we go into an lds. The signs that say for your safety....bla bla bla. MOst of the time is has nothing to do with safety. If they said to "In compliance of fed regulations there is no smoking" it would be much better than "For your safety" Smokers believe it is safe .. so the rule(to them) is en excuse policy, or a law to force a no smoking agenda. Look at every drug commercial and its associated disclaimer so the program or the tv station is not acccountable for the ad content. Seeing this every day subliminally tells us all rules are BS. You come to this board and no matter what the topic is, you will find a preticular demography of divers who will nit pick a phrase and preach doom and gloom. Any one who has done a controversial act has now been reinforced in the viewed fact that the gloom and doom preached is hypothetical and not real cause they either know someone who does it, or have done it them selves.
I ran into a couple who did deep air using single al80's pumped to 4K. Would I? ..... no. But to them the reasons are its a bounce dive so no harm done. The 4K in the tank is ok because of a 4:1 safety factor or it does not exceed Hydro presure. Do i condone it NO do i understand it YES, Would i dive with them NO.
It is normally only after further training that one sees the ignorance of past behaviors. Our system creates these behaviors and oks the path for the young indestructable's to do the things like deep air to 200-300 ft.
For every one that gets hurt , there are 100 more that escaped harm. And the vote is 100 for its ok and the other 1 who cant vote.
Again , sorrry for my posts appearance of deeeeeeep air diving approval.
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DevonDiver
N/A
I think this entirely depends on whether 'restrictions' are interpreted as "you cannot" or "you should not".
Advising a diver, in general, that they should not exceed x, y or z limits is just prudent advice. Telling them they cannot is another matter.
When dive operations/charters set their own limits, it is neither of the above - they have a right to apply whatever limits they want in respect of their own operations. Likewise, the diver concerned has a right to choose whatever dive operation/charter they want to dive with. If you don't like an operation's policies, then don't choose to dive with that operation.
my comment has nothing to do with operator rights. I happen to agree with you. I refer to the mindset of some that engage in behaviors that are not sound ones,, because our society is loaded with over protective cautions to the point that they are not listened to or heeded. the way you and i see the differences in should and could i doubt is the same as the younger generations. My positon is that you flood the environment with
1. if you run with a stick you will poke your eye out.
2. if you dont personally deliver you child to school a perv wil l get them
3. if you dont wait 2 hours after eating and swim you will get a cramp
4. if you dont hold hands when you cross the street a car will hit you
5. santa clause easter bunny ect. ect.
the list goes on and on. and though well intentioned and spoken as "Innocent" lies for our ones own good. We know by all too many occasions that what we are told is more bunk than fact.
now the product of this up bringing assumes what ever they are told is bunk also till proven valid. You can not show me any scuba training that validates the dangers of diving in a manner that is not more of the same. Is it any wonder why common sence is not so common. 60 ft 200 ft whats the difference to the new generations. They drink do drugs what ever,,,, just how are they to recognize being narked. If it is not recognized then the narc theory is just another scare tactic the serves everyone but the diver.
Any training instructor is remiss if they do not advise against bad behavior . However once the card is in the mail teh advice is in one ear and out the other. and filed with santa and the rabbit. Or better yet it is a life chlallenge. Be the first on the block to go to 200' without wasteing cash on tech training.
Of those people that engage in bad behavior, they also have a nother problem. It is the technology of the times. need to make a call, go shopping enter tainment, pay a bill. ect go to technology. So if one gets hurt ,,,, technology will be there to save them.
So they are the invincable with a get out of dead card.
I think that diving deep is not the problem it is a symptom of a problem that we in part have created by opening a pandoras box.
My outlook kis very pessimistic i know. And there are also the vast majority that uses prudent thinking and risk management. But the majority are not the ones that make headlines.
1. if you run with a stick you will poke your eye out.
2. if you dont personally deliver you child to school a perv wil l get them
3. if you dont wait 2 hours after eating and swim you will get a cramp
4. if you dont hold hands when you cross the street a car will hit you
5. santa clause easter bunny ect. ect.
the list goes on and on. and though well intentioned and spoken as "Innocent" lies for our ones own good. We know by all too many occasions that what we are told is more bunk than fact.
now the product of this up bringing assumes what ever they are told is bunk also till proven valid. You can not show me any scuba training that validates the dangers of diving in a manner that is not more of the same. Is it any wonder why common sence is not so common. 60 ft 200 ft whats the difference to the new generations. They drink do drugs what ever,,,, just how are they to recognize being narked. If it is not recognized then the narc theory is just another scare tactic the serves everyone but the diver.
Any training instructor is remiss if they do not advise against bad behavior . However once the card is in the mail teh advice is in one ear and out the other. and filed with santa and the rabbit. Or better yet it is a life chlallenge. Be the first on the block to go to 200' without wasteing cash on tech training.
Of those people that engage in bad behavior, they also have a nother problem. It is the technology of the times. need to make a call, go shopping enter tainment, pay a bill. ect go to technology. So if one gets hurt ,,,, technology will be there to save them.
So they are the invincable with a get out of dead card.
I think that diving deep is not the problem it is a symptom of a problem that we in part have created by opening a pandoras box.
My outlook kis very pessimistic i know. And there are also the vast majority that uses prudent thinking and risk management. But the majority are not the ones that make headlines.
VooDooGasMan
Contributor
Kws you keep flappin your jaw like mother hen, none of what your posting means nothing.
200' dives can easily be accomplished and are everyday, they are easy to do, call it a bounce, a little bottom time adds a little deco and that is all it is. If you want to put it in all the mumbo jumbo you been writing, then fine you dive a little deeper till you reach 200'. as you go deeper each dive you see how you feel, see how much air you use, see how long it takes, at the same time you follow the navy tables like every one has for decades.
Many older training books had navy tables to past 300' a few years later they put them to 240' then 190' and that was for a long time. Peter ward wrote the first great dive guide I have seen for puget sound in the cold low vis he had the tables to 190' in his book. This was 1974 and the book was for a cause, save the orca's.
Today the dive instruction wants you to be scared to make these dives without training for it when all you actually need is dive experience period.
Physics of deep diving is easily found on the net the 1.6 ta 1.4 is a guide and so many people can pass these to where they find out 200' will not kill me. narcosis can kill me if tolerance can not be achieved. With a few other things to study and all the divers who do these dives, the dive successfully is done and some accidents occur just like tech diving, rebreather diving, boat diving, during dive class, people die diving all the time for so many reasons.
200' dives are very common and always will be done everyday period.
200' dives can easily be accomplished and are everyday, they are easy to do, call it a bounce, a little bottom time adds a little deco and that is all it is. If you want to put it in all the mumbo jumbo you been writing, then fine you dive a little deeper till you reach 200'. as you go deeper each dive you see how you feel, see how much air you use, see how long it takes, at the same time you follow the navy tables like every one has for decades.
Many older training books had navy tables to past 300' a few years later they put them to 240' then 190' and that was for a long time. Peter ward wrote the first great dive guide I have seen for puget sound in the cold low vis he had the tables to 190' in his book. This was 1974 and the book was for a cause, save the orca's.
Today the dive instruction wants you to be scared to make these dives without training for it when all you actually need is dive experience period.
Physics of deep diving is easily found on the net the 1.6 ta 1.4 is a guide and so many people can pass these to where they find out 200' will not kill me. narcosis can kill me if tolerance can not be achieved. With a few other things to study and all the divers who do these dives, the dive successfully is done and some accidents occur just like tech diving, rebreather diving, boat diving, during dive class, people die diving all the time for so many reasons.
200' dives are very common and always will be done everyday period.
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