Tigerman
Contributor
Actually, although I agree with your sentiment, sandy slopes can hide a lot of cool macro life
Deep bounce dive in Cozumel leads to missing diver
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Mike
Contributor
As you said, you haven't done it.
I know what likes to hang out in 200-300 ft of water - sharks. They like it colder and dimmer and know where all the divers are and are avoiding them.
All those rare hammer heads, bulls, grays and reef sharks and others that get reported once in a blue moon being seen from rec depth dives -- where do you think they are when they aren't being seen at those shallower depths?
I agree with the premise of deep bounce dives for the sake of it on an Al 80 aren't really safe over the long run, but the continued quote of "There is nothing more to see at X ft then at X feet"... what ever...
As for there being no buddy system on deep dives, or divers slipping away into the abyss impossible to stop... I have to eye roll to that one too. Narcosis effects everyone of us a bit differently and to different degrees, the buddy system is at it's most important on deeper dives as buddys should be monitoring each other watching for tell tales of Narcosis in each other. And if you can't "catch" a buddy sinking into the abyss... well... you most likely couldn't be of much help to your buddy in any emergency at really any depth then, cause if your buddy can sink into the abyss on you and be out of your reach... you're not doing it right in the first place.
Why do people dive deep? Well some love the buzz, I know I enjoy The mental thrill of it. Now why do I enjoy that, well I guess its the same reason skydivers love the thrill or base jumpers etc. Now I would never skydive, or base jump ever. For me the risk is far too high if things go wrong, however I do understand their mental drivers.
Perhaps some people have their brains wired in a certain way which promotes this, similar why some become addicted to smoking while others can stop cold turkey or never have the desire in the first place. Why some are addicted to sex and others can take it or leave it. Why do some people take huge risks and become millionaires and others don't and remain poor to just comfortable financially.
Now in saying that I like diving deep, I do, but I also understand the risks and increased risks the deeper one goes. Now I didn't have this knowledge on my first deep dives to the extent I needed. We joined a dive group to dive Truk. It wasn't until we were nearly ready to leave that I started asking appropriate questions and had some real concerns, alarm bells were going off in my head. We would be diving on singles as that's all the gear we had. I read up on deeper diving and decided to mitigate some of the risk by limiting depth to 50m, using 15 litre cylinder and a sling cylinder, with a 50% Nx under the boat for emergencies. We followed our plan and Murphy didn't strike except to have a backup computer failure. It was a plan, but in hindsight should have been done differently.
On completing this holiday I read more and then it became abundantly clear we had taken significant risk on this holiday, mainly due to our ignorance (you don't know what you don't know until you get there, and often its far too late). On that basis it was clear to me that given our love for diving and future dive plans, it would be in our best interest and safety to do a tech course which we did and that highlighted things we had not even really considered while over at Truk. I now feel much more happy about deep diving on air as I now understand the risks better.
So to answer some peoples questions here "why do people take risks and dive deep", I believe its partly their makeup inside their head (and I don't mean stupidity). Perhaps personal satisfaction (this is me), some are ego driven, some do it in ignorance and some are just plain dumb.
For me anyway I like to calculate the risk and look at mitigating it and then deciding if its worth it. Based on my current knowledge I would not dive below 55m on air and am very aware of the risks at that depth. I do have a mental desire to dive to 100m and realise I need to do Trimix however in saying that, its a fair cost to do this and do the dives which may be the only ones I ever do on Trimix given the additional cost, so in all probability it wont happen, but I am damn sure it wont happen in air just because I have a desire to go that deep.
Life is far too short so I made myself a promise of doing as much as I can in the time I have. My father, sister, uncles all died of cancer. In the days when chemicals were good, I have been exposed to DDT, 245T, dihedron, asbestoses unwittingly, so the dice has well and truly been rolled for me a number of times. I have fallen out of a car onto the road at speed and nearly died a number of times while driving tractors on a farm when 15. So I guess the grim reaper has had a few goes at claiming me. I accept my life is finite, but wish to enjoy as much of it as I can, therefore try not to take stupid risks, planned ones yes, but not stupid ones.
So for me its, understand what you wish to achieve, understand the risks, plan the dive and dive the plan. Put in backup and emergency gear and plans, minimise the risks.
I think the biggest killer in most of these dives is that they may well be a "rush of blood" thought, rather than a fully planned out dive. If it were planned they probably wouldn't have dived the way they did.
Perhaps some people have their brains wired in a certain way which promotes this, similar why some become addicted to smoking while others can stop cold turkey or never have the desire in the first place. Why some are addicted to sex and others can take it or leave it. Why do some people take huge risks and become millionaires and others don't and remain poor to just comfortable financially.
Now in saying that I like diving deep, I do, but I also understand the risks and increased risks the deeper one goes. Now I didn't have this knowledge on my first deep dives to the extent I needed. We joined a dive group to dive Truk. It wasn't until we were nearly ready to leave that I started asking appropriate questions and had some real concerns, alarm bells were going off in my head. We would be diving on singles as that's all the gear we had. I read up on deeper diving and decided to mitigate some of the risk by limiting depth to 50m, using 15 litre cylinder and a sling cylinder, with a 50% Nx under the boat for emergencies. We followed our plan and Murphy didn't strike except to have a backup computer failure. It was a plan, but in hindsight should have been done differently.
On completing this holiday I read more and then it became abundantly clear we had taken significant risk on this holiday, mainly due to our ignorance (you don't know what you don't know until you get there, and often its far too late). On that basis it was clear to me that given our love for diving and future dive plans, it would be in our best interest and safety to do a tech course which we did and that highlighted things we had not even really considered while over at Truk. I now feel much more happy about deep diving on air as I now understand the risks better.
So to answer some peoples questions here "why do people take risks and dive deep", I believe its partly their makeup inside their head (and I don't mean stupidity). Perhaps personal satisfaction (this is me), some are ego driven, some do it in ignorance and some are just plain dumb.
For me anyway I like to calculate the risk and look at mitigating it and then deciding if its worth it. Based on my current knowledge I would not dive below 55m on air and am very aware of the risks at that depth. I do have a mental desire to dive to 100m and realise I need to do Trimix however in saying that, its a fair cost to do this and do the dives which may be the only ones I ever do on Trimix given the additional cost, so in all probability it wont happen, but I am damn sure it wont happen in air just because I have a desire to go that deep.
Life is far too short so I made myself a promise of doing as much as I can in the time I have. My father, sister, uncles all died of cancer. In the days when chemicals were good, I have been exposed to DDT, 245T, dihedron, asbestoses unwittingly, so the dice has well and truly been rolled for me a number of times. I have fallen out of a car onto the road at speed and nearly died a number of times while driving tractors on a farm when 15. So I guess the grim reaper has had a few goes at claiming me. I accept my life is finite, but wish to enjoy as much of it as I can, therefore try not to take stupid risks, planned ones yes, but not stupid ones.
So for me its, understand what you wish to achieve, understand the risks, plan the dive and dive the plan. Put in backup and emergency gear and plans, minimise the risks.
I think the biggest killer in most of these dives is that they may well be a "rush of blood" thought, rather than a fully planned out dive. If it were planned they probably wouldn't have dived the way they did.
Perhaps you didn't read carefully. I didn't say I haven't done deep dives; I said I haven't done deep bounce dives on single cylinders. When I dive deep, I bring enough gas to stay there awhile and have the time to look around and enjoy whatever there is to see there. I bring the right gas so that I am clear headed enough to remember what I saw when I was there.
I have to wonder if some statements are being taken out of context, and I do not want to do the same thing. My impression is that John was saying he hasn't done many deep (200-300 foot) dives in Cozumel, not that he hadn't done deep dives, or even deep dives on Cozumel.
Also, I interpreted his comments regarding the buddy system to be specifically in reference to deep bounce dives, on air, on a single cylinder. Maybe, I am wrong but I thought that was the initial point of this thread. I don't think John said there is 'no buddy system on deep dives'. Perhaps, your response was made in the context of planned, deep dives, which would presumably involve taking an adequate gas supply to allow you to see - for more than just a fleeting moment - those sharks, and as an inevitable consequence, involve a decompression obligation which was also planned, including provision for the additional gas supplies required to safely fulfill the obligation.
But, just to be certain I understand your point - and if I have misunderstood I need to be corrected - are you saying that there IS an effective buddy system that can be used at 250 feet, when the divers are using single cylinders (e.g. AL80s) filled with air, and which would even allow a diver to both prevent his/her buddy from 'sinking into the abysss' and surfacing safely? If so, I think I, and many others, would really like to know what that buddy system is, and how it works.
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I think we saw how it works in Cozumel only recently. When one diver in the group unexpectedly continued to descend after they had reached the planned depth of their single tank bounce dive, the buddy did continue down after her and caught her by the time she had descended roughly another hundred feet. He did bring her to the surface, fortunately with the help of another diver who did not do that extra descent and thus had enough air left in his cylinder to allow a three person buddy breathing exercise to the surface. The only things that went wrong are that the diver who unexpectedly continued to descend died, and the buddy who valiantly went after her to effect the rescue will be paralyzed for life. Other than that, it worked great.
---------- Post added June 10th, 2013 at 10:34 AM ----------
Just to add...
I said I have not dived to those depths often in Cozumel, but I have dived to those depths in Cozumel. I have dived to those depths elsewhere as well.
Sorry, but I don't see all those great animals down there. Oh, I do see some big things from time to time, but there is generally much more to see shallower than 250 feet. I usually only go deeper than that if there is a wreck or something along those lines to visit, and I am frankly doing that a lot less these days.
Pick up a marine science textbook and read about the different zones and the different kinds of life that typically inhabit them as you descend. You may be very surprised at what you learn.
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