deep air

[Rainer]

My comments have little to do with DIR and certainly nothing to do with dogma, but thanks.

I really don't care what you do. At all.

In the water, I care about myself and those whom my actions will affect. For myself, my family, and my teammates, I make particular choices. I dive only for fun. I have zero interest in "military precision-diving". Likewise, I have zero interest in deep air or solo diving.

This is the only issue I have with DIR, the dogma. I don't have nearly the number of deep air dives as some of the posters in this thread, but have a few hundred more than the nuvo DIR types. I have never made a dive where I forgot any pert of it. I've never been so narced that I couldn't read my spg and know which way was up. If I was planning a dive involving the complicated scenarios you mentioned I would likely use trimix, but for a dive when I'm just going to look around or shoot some video I manage fine on air. Most of the divers I know who use scooters are simply playing underwater. Practicing the skills to make a mile penetration in a 300 foot deep cave is one thing, but if I only dive reefs and wrecks in SoCal I can do that with minimal gear and air, sometimes even solo. It's all about enjoying the dive. Some enjoy military precision-type team diving, some of us like to study marine life. To each their own.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

My comments have little to do with DIR and certainly nothing to do with dogma, but thanks..

I was referring to the comment about remembering the dive. That's something I've heard for ten years from people who have never dived deep air.

I have zero interest in "military precision-diving".

I was referring to the perfect trim, frog-kicking team-oriented divers who feel they need practice if they move more than a couple feet in the water column while shooting a liftbag. Works great for the WKPP, but seems a little silly in open water.

Likewise, I have zero interest in deep air or solo diving.

Many of the posters in this thread do. Many have for decades without incident.

 

[Rainer]

I was referring to the comment about remembering the dive. That's something I've heard for ten years from people who have never dived deep air.

Low ENDs help me remember *my* dives better. They also make most tasks easier (not harder): tracking deco, managing reels/scooters/stages/etc, navigation, etc; basically they make everything else easier, so I can focus on enjoying the dive. You know, the whole point of being there.

I was referring to the perfect trim, frog-kicking team-oriented divers who feel they need practice if they move more than a couple feet in the water column while shooting a liftbag. Works great for the WKPP, but seems a little silly in open water.

I have good trim, frog kick, and am team-oriented. How does that stop me from having a good time on my dives??? There's nothing militaristic about my diving. Where do you get this stuff? Oh wait, the internet.

Many of the posters in this thread do. Many have for decades without incident.

And many people died as well. Your point?

 

[Gilldiver]

You know some of the most meticulous work I know of being done underwater is archaeological documentation and recovery. Now Texas A&M does this every summer with an excellent safety record on ancient wrecks down to 200 feet and beyond on air. They just can not get or afford to use mixed gasses. They are now using some O2 for deco, on some sites, sometimes

Now the quality of the divers is nothing to be admired being, at most, AOW, and many with less then 50-100 dives total. Now I wonder how they get that work done on air without a deep cert, mix cert, deco cert, wipe my ass cert, .........?

Bodrum, Turkey - Institute of Nautical Archaeology

I will admit that these dives are more controled then many we do, but Perhaps, just perhaps there is not as much to this stuff as some would make you think.

 

[Rainer]

Dive gear today is amazingly reliable. As long as it works (which is most of the time), it masks all kinds of training/experience issues.

God help the diver with only 50 dives at 200' on air with no deco gas if he should run into a serious issue. You know, just perhaps.

I will admit that these dives are more controled then many we do, but Perhaps, just perhaps there is not as much to this stuff as some would make you think.

 

[gcbryan]

...
I have good trim, frog kick, and am team-oriented. How does that stop me from having a good time on my dives??? There's nothing militaristic about my diving. Where do you get this stuff? Oh wait, the internet.
...

You are being dismissive of the internet even as you are posting on the internet. Someone reads all about team, drills, absolutist rules from those who post most often on the internet and concludes that it's sounds rather militaristic and now you are dismissive of the internet?

You guys have to have a rule book for posting otherwise your posts couldn't be so similar. It cracks me up to read that comments have nothing to do with DIR and someone should be ashamed to even possibly think so.

Follow that up with a comment about the internet and the slight of hand is complete. Subject is now changed to the internet!

Through in a comment about how I don't care how you dive after essentially posting that you do care and again it's right out of the rule book used over and over again.

"How dare one think that DIR is being discussed when the subject is deep air, solo diving and complexities arising from reels, scooters, and a team.

Chris Rock had routine about a girl in a bar dressed like a 'ho. She said just because I'm dressed like this does NOT mean that I'm a 'ho. He said that's true just because you are dressed like that does not mean that you are a 'ho but you sure are dressed in the manner of a 'ho.

He said it's rather like me dressing as a Police Officer and being offended if after being robbed someone comes up to me for help. Just because I am dressed in the manner of a Police Officer does NOT mean that I am a Police Officer and I am offended!

If every post is related to DIR it's hard to feign disbelieve that one would think that perhaps it's a DIR position.

 

[cfenton]

...and the slight of hand is complete. Subject is now changed...

I completely agree with you. Whenever something remotely controversial is being discussed people have the tendency to spout their side of things and ignore, or change the subject, when a valid point is made on the opposite side. It has happened on both sides of this argument, multiple times. It's human nature, and it's about as likely to change, as it is likely for us all to agree that deep air is a good or bad idea. In the end there really is no universal truth here. We can all argue about this for another ten years...and likely will.

Did anybody else notice that the guy who started this train wreck hasn't said a thing since? So what was his motivation?

 

[LiteHedded]

I completely agree with you. Whenever something remotely controversial is being discussed people have the tendency to spout their side of things and ignore, or change the subject, when a valid point is made on the opposite side. It has happened on both sides of this argument, multiple times. It's human nature, and it's about as likely to change, as it is likely for us all to agree that deep air is a good or bad idea. In the end there really is no universal truth here. We can all argue about this for another ten years...and likely will.

Did anybody else notice that the guy who started this train wreck hasn't said a thing since? So what was his motivation?

he got what he wanted

 

[SurDo2]

I'd love to see some of your deep cave and wreck diving videos.

I don't have any of those but I do have some video inspection and working dive footage that you would probably find just as interesting.

Kinda like the 2 KY guys who decided that they didn't need cave training, nor a working END anywhere close to sane to dive Eagle's Nest? One came back, but he's not talking much about their nifty "plan".

Go ahead, poke the Tiger.

I don't poke the tiger. I've dove with various technical agencies and I'm very much aware of what's involved when it comes to diving trimix, wrecks, caves, rebreathers, etc. I also conduct my commercial dive operations as both a supervisor and a diver within all regulatory legislation of the jurisdiction I am working in.

My post wasn't meant to be inflammatory, I just don't think you guys understand the level of training we receive, how much time we spend or how comfortable we are in the water. On the commercial side we dive daily in some of the most inhospitable places on earth combined with dives that are very challenging, technical and dangerous. Should we conduct dive operations that involve considerable depth, an overheard environment, significant penetration, current, complex navigation, DPV's, pressure differential or any combination thereof be it on SCUBA, surface supplied, mixed gas or air, we're able. No additional training or certifications are required. We have a tailboard, formulate a dive plan and conduct the dive. All the skills that you have become proficient at and hold dear as technical divers we do as well. Buoyancy, trim, valve drills, navigation, buddy drills, teamwork, mid-water work, running lines, emergency procedures, etc are all second nature to us. We do it every single day. And no, I'm not professing that all commercial divers posses the skill sets and experience to go along with the statement I made in my earlier post, but many do. And yes, there's usually a chamber or two around in case things go south but that doesn't mean any of us want to end up inside it. Now I have to get to bed. Believe it or not I have a deep air dive to conduct at 0700 hrs. Yes, I wish it was a mixed gas dive but Santa doesn't come until next week.

Merry Christmas.

 

[DCBC]

Many of these 150' commercial dives are also tethered, require no real/complex navigational decision, no penetrations, no line running, no artistic video/stills, no deco obligation to calculate (if someone upstairs is controlling it), no mid-water work (if you're just being hauled back up), no team to track, no scootering, have comms, surface support, a decompression chamber above if things go south, and the job, not enjoyment is the main issue.

Thal has already addressed this. Obviously you have no idea of the complexity of commercial diving.

To be blunt, I probably couldn't do the dives the commercial guys are doing (regardless of gas choice), but then again, they probably can't do the dives we're doing either (regardless of gas choice, but being narced out of your mind sure isn't going to help).

I agree that you couldn't do the dives the commercial guys are doing (regardless of gas choice). I would disagree however, that there is little you do as recreational divers that we haven't already done in much worse conditions. That said, no one here is trying to compare commercial and recreational divers, unless it's you.

Your statement "being narced out of your mind sure isn't going to help," is inaccurate. I have been narced out of my mind, but this has never been as a commercial diver. As a Naval Diving Officer at DCIEM, it was my role to often act as a Guinea Pig for scientific testing purposes in a wet/dry chamber. My safety was always assured.