Deep Air
- Thread starter Rhone Man
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Kevin Carlisle
Contributor
What is a wonky mix
The guys at EN were usuing Trimix... ( last report I read anyway )
Last, do you not realize that narcosis affects people differently? I wont even consider trimix unless im gonna start diving below 200. As a diver i would hope you look at each stage of the dive and be able to be honest with yourself as to if you should proceed. Air / trimix.. If you want to over pay for your dive go ahead, if you narc easily I dont blame you. Notning wrong with air if you can handle it.
ucfdiver
Contributor
Kevin-What is a wonky mix
The guys at EN were usuing Trimix... ( last report I read anyway )
Last, do you not realize that narcosis affects people differently? I wont even consider trimix unless im gonna start diving below 200. As a diver i would hope you look at each stage of the dive and be able to be honest with yourself as to if you should proceed. Air / trimix.. If you want to over pay for your dive go ahead, if you narc easily I dont blame you. Notning wrong with air if you can handle it.
They were using a very low He mix, with a pretty high END at the depths they were at. Certainly well beyond the 100 or 130ft limits that we as cave divers (and the agencies) have accepted as one of the 5 most common factors in cave fatalities. Basically they broke a rule that comes from the same set of rules where we get 1/3rds from. I'm a pretty firm believer narcosis has lead to more deaths than gas failures...so to be honest, I'd rather see someone break 1/3rds than dive narc'ed, especially at the 130+ft level.
The cave community chest thumps very loudly about how training can save lives, and IMO, if we start diving far beyond the 5 basic rules, we betray the trust that we've earned with land owners by teaching them about these rules. Every one of us jumps over non trained divers like Atomic Diver for breaking the training rule, or someone who breaks 1/3rds, but the continuous guideline and narcotic depth seem to be two of those 5 that I see broken all the time, and I'm not sure why it's OK to break some rules, but not others?
LiteHedded
Contributor
yes. James and Greg were diving 18/30 at depths approaching 300' deep.
it's this kind of "if you can handle it" machismo that worries me most. and it typically comes from people with no trimix training trying to justify their diving. (this is not directed at anyone in this thread specifically btw)
how about this. agree to disagree?
it's this kind of "if you can handle it" machismo that worries me most. and it typically comes from people with no trimix training trying to justify their diving. (this is not directed at anyone in this thread specifically btw)
how about this. agree to disagree?
Kevin Carlisle
Contributor
Well the problem with that is at this level of diving that you and I do we should be evaluating the dive every step of the way.. If I am with you and I feel weird I m going to say hey time to go. I am not gonna take a chance on killing me or you.. I check my senses often to make sure I am thinking rational.
I just dont see trimix as the miracle gas as others do. I know at 153ft I am very clear headed. If it was pushing the 02 limits I would tend to agree trimix may be the answer. But then again it is the diver that makes it a dive safe or not, hence the EN fiasco. I guess in my opinion I see good and bad in both.
Kevin Carlisle
Contributor
LiteHedded
Contributor
I still want to know what a wonky mix is
wonky's a fun word to use.
and an END approaching 180' and ppo2 approaching 1.7 is 'wonky' to me.
Kevin Carlisle
Contributor
LiteHedded
Contributor
I think you have to put this in perspective. Narcosis is but one problem a diver may have to overcome. There are many, take current for example. If you had slowly built-up your current experience so that you had a few hundred current dives under your belt, I'd suspect that you would be more comfortable, even more competent to dive in conditions where another diver would be deemed to be unsafe.
Narcosis is a problem for everyone, however the depth at which it affects the reasonable safety of a diver will vary. Divers may slowly build their experience to recognize and deal with a degree of narcosis. By doing so they develop their ability to better prepared to dive deeper on air than another diver who has not has this experience.
I'm not promoting unsafe diving practices. I am saying that the most dangerous time for any diver is when they are developing their basic skill-sets. Dealing with some degree of narcosis use to be a basic skill.
I agree that a diver is best to never experience narcosis. This can be done by using the right gas for the target depth. If this gas(s) are not available however, the diver has to make an informed choice regarding safety. The only way I have increased my ability to dive deeper on air has been through experience. If the diver never gets the experience, s/he is the same as the diver who has never had to deal with current, cold water, waves, etc.
These are all hazards. In-truth, we should never enter the water if we want to be truly safe; but as we all know, we can develop skills that allow us to venture forth.
So back to your question. As I have extensive trimix and heliox experience and in no way am I trying to be macho, I have to disagree with your statement.
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