Deep Air Question

[Rick Murchison]

JamesK once bubbled...
Mike,

Just interested in where you draw the line on deep air. Your statement of 95 compared to 105 feet sounds like a statement made by someone who I was talking to about it. My personal limit is 120 on air. Deeper only in an emergency. When I told this to someone else, they basically made the same statement, well why not 130 or 140 or 150? Well then if not 150 why not 160? My question was "Where does it stop?" I was just wondering what you considered too deep for air. If you already mentioned this, sorry.

The question as posed has no real answer, for the answer depends mightily on
(1) for how long?
(2) under what conditions?
.....(a) temperature
.....(b) visibility
.....(c) current
.....(d) hazards
(3) to do what? Just have a look? Perform a complex task? Explore? Inside a wreck or cave? Recover something? etc...
(4) with whom?
(5) with what support?
(6) with what equipment?
(7) how am I feeling today? Healthy? Rested? Hydrated?
(8) myriad other miscellaneous factors
The answer for me can vary from "just stay home" to 218' - where I hit my personal absolute deep air diving oxygen exposure limit of 1.6 ATM (and that can start a whole new line of argument).
Rick

 

[MikeFerrara]

There you go James, put me on the spot why don't ya.

BTW, I like the picture in your profile. I have pictures taken, I believe, on that very rock.

The trining that I have valued the most and place the most faith in has been my cave training. I accept the rules derived from accident analysis which state max depth (end) of 130. However, there are shallower dives that I won't do without mix.

So...I think an end of 130 is too deep for some dives and some divers. The dives that scare me the most are when new divers go to 120 in Cozumel using rental equipment following a DM. At these depths there are, IMO, bigger issues than narcosis. You need more than helium. I really hate it when a diver who goes to 100+ with minimal training, experience and equipment wants to lecture (or judge) others about narcosis. IMO, this is the perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Read and give some thought to rick's post

 

[JamesK]

WOW! Great answers from both of you guys! Thanks!

BTW, sorry to put ya on the spot Mike!

I agree 100% with you about the Caribbean thing. That to me is just plain ridiculous, and dangerous.

Thanks for the compliment on the picture. My buddy and I did some quick pictures last month while we were down in Peacock. That pic is right at the begining of the bedding plane. I think that rock behind me is famous for training! I beleive I did my first lost line drill there!

Anyway, thanks again guys.

 

[cavediver]

Deep air is stupid

 

[Cave Diver]

I am currently taking the IANTD Deep Air and Advanced Nitrox courses.

The focus of the classes is NOT to advocate diving deep on air. The absolute max depth is 130' with a working PO2 of 1.4

The focus of this class is about gas management and dive planning. We are learning about the benefits of using up to 50% nitrox to aid offgassing, decompression planning, the use and carrying of stage bottles, etc. There is also more of a focus on equipment consideration such as the use of either an H-valve or doubles with a manifold to provide redundant air supply.

I am not taking this class so that I can go out and do 'deep dives' to more than recreational limits, I am doing it to learn more about the skills and equipment that will be required as I move towards my trimix certification. I think it is rather unfortunate that this class is called 'deep air' because it seems to give people the impression that anyone who is doing it is breaking recognized limits and standards.

Of course, I am sure there are those that are doing just that, but I feel the ones that do break the limits are more likely to be the people who have had the lesser amount of training and don't realize how really stupid and dangerous this can be.

 

[Rick Murchison]

cavediver once bubbled...
Deep air is stupid

Ah... how deep, Grasshopper???
Rick

 

[cavediver]

Rick Murchison once bubbled...

Ah... how deep, Grasshopper???
Rick

any depth-- master Rick

 

[cavediver]

Cave Diver once bubbled...
I am currently taking the IANTD Deep Air and Advanced Nitrox courses.

Its good that you are going to an ADV level of training. but you learned in nitrox class the advantages of less N2 right. so now you are taking a deep air class with all of the things you mentioned. Deco, extra tanks, more depth etc. thats task loading. and elevated N2 levels add to the risk of problems. one takes a ADV. nitrox or trimix class to take advantage of the gas mixes, less N2. so why go back to OW 101 and dive air again. you dont have to take deep air to advance to higher levels of diving. what are they trying to show you, that you can go deep be narced, and pay for what you aready know, that air has a narc affect the deeper you go. when I took the ADV. nitrox course I skipped right pass the deep air crap, then moved on to trimix

 

[WreckWriter]

cavediver once bubbled...

Cave Diver once bubbled...
I skipped right pass the deep air crap, then moved on to trimix

Yep, that's the right way to do it. It's at the instructor's discretion. I actually skipped Adv Nitrox too, went from Nitrox to Adv Trimix (with a few hundred deep dives in between).

Tom

 

[cavediver]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


Yep, that's the right way to do it. It's at the instructor's discretion. I actually skipped Adv Nitrox too, went from Nitrox to Adv Trimix (with a few hundred deep dives in between).

Tom

I agree Tom it is the instructors choice. if you have been deep , have been exposed to diving with doubles or something that imposes task loading at depth. can prove that you are a competent diver like going to say 60ft in tec gear with the instructor and showing you are "good enough" to advance to a certain stage of training