Deep Air Diving - thoughts

[Azza]

This discussion has gone from rediculous to ludicris! To assert that "I can do it, but I dont know about you", is reminiscent of the chest-pounding machismo bullcrap that pervaded the cave diving community in the 60's. If you dive deep (100 ft and deeper) on air, YOU ARE IMPAIRED. In fact, you are impaired at shollower depths depending on all of the issues that have already been beat to death in earlier posts. To use "not paying for trimix" as your excuse for deep air diving is the same white trash type thinking as not paying for one of those "fancy house things" in order to justify living in a trailer with Bubba going through your trash for his wifes anniversity present. If your safety isn't enough reason for you to obtain the required training and skill to conduct deeper dives, do the gene pool a favor and do your dives on Argon. In fact, you can probably adapt and overcome the narcotic effects, and in fact it will make you 10 feet tall, bullet proof, and better looking! I truly believe we have an inherently safe sport which bears witness to the fact that those who conduct "deep air" dives stilll enjoy the blessing of life in order to be here to represent the uninformed position that "it's OK". Booger-eating morons...look up "reynolds number". CO2 is how much more narcotic than Nitrogen? Swimming along at a relaxed pace is one thing...I truly admire those of you who can patiently continue to endure this banter as I cannot. Argueing with an idiot is like wrestling with a pig. Both of you are going to get dirty, but the pig is going to like it.......

Actually when I read posts like this I wonder how far the Pussification of the planet is going to go. **** now we are breeding people with smaller nuts than the generation before?
Some people just need to harden up and stop wrapping themselves in cotton wool...

Disclaimer: When I started reading this thread I had only had One rum. Now I have had 4...sorry if anyone was offended....

Actually...no I'm not. If you were offended you need to grow some nuts and stop the world turning you into a pussy

 

[Azza]

Ive never really understood the "forgotten parts of dive things". Yes i've been narked and sometimes severely but on surfacing i can still remember just as much of the dive as on air. My reactions may have been slower and more muddled, my mental state maybe altered but it doesnt create amnesia.
I think at times people are comparing narcosis to alcohol too literally - although similar in effect it isnt the same thing in action at all.

Thats because they don't really know...they read it on the internet somewhere and assumed it must be true.

Like you I don't get "deep air amnesia"...in fact I think its bull**** except maybe doing big air dives to 300-400ft like Gilliam and the like did in the bad old days before He.

 

[Geoff_H]

Sigh.....I was hoping this would not turn into a "GUE versus the world" debate regarding acceptable END's......

I think you effectively nixxed that with your posts earlier in the thread.

Cost is not something I allow into my risk tolerance equation. It is a trump card. If I can't afford the cost, I won't do the dive. Plain and simple. This is all just recreational diving after all. The argument others make regarding choosing to dive deep air because HE is just too expensive is pretty week as far as I am concerned.

But this is the gist of the whole problem, diving Deep Air may appear fine but your examples show that your ability to react in a timely and correct fashion to an emergency is questionable.

For the lawyers out there, what I don't understand is that if we know the physiological effects of narcosis, yet some agencies still support Deep Air diving, is not the instructor or agency liable if that student then dies because he was impaired in his reactions to an emergency?

So after everything you have read above, you still want to drive drunk before driving sober just so you can get some experience and appreciation for driving sober???

Sigh.............

You can decide your level of risk but I take issue with advocating that level of risk to others in the light of scientific evidence clearly demonstrating the impairment present when deep air diving. Why is it always the really drunk guy in the bar that makes the most noise about how he is not too drunk to drive?

I disagree and lets leave it at that. I truly am baffled by poster's decision to "do some deep air dives first" just to get some experience. How is that any different from wanting to drive drunk before driving sober??

Others may read this differently, but that sounds preachy as hell to me. I have no idea if you are GUE or not, but your arguments sound like they are straight out of the textbook, and your tone is exactly the same as other preachy GUE divers - rjack, "SparticleBrane", John B, RTodd etc etc.

 

[peterbj7]

One of the mandates of GUE's training program is to create thinking divers who (contrary to a lot of misinformation on the internet)are not mindless automatons who simple regurgitate the party line

So why is that precisely how they are often perceived as behaving? How has it happened that there is so much "misinformation on the internet"? Could GUE divers be at least partly responsible for the generation of antipathy?

Actually I'm glad you mentioned GUE. That at last enables me to put what you have been saying into context, because it did seem to have a suggestion of "religious fervour".

On facts, you say that GUE doesn't permit air dives below 100'. Right? How is that depth determined?

 

[Bismark]

Actually when I read posts like this I wonder how far the Pussification of the planet is going to go. **** now we are breeding people with smaller nuts than the generation before?
Some people just need to harden up and stop wrapping themselves in cotton wool...

Disclaimer: When I started reading this thread I had only had One rum. Now I have had 4...sorry if anyone was offended....

Actually...no I'm not. If you were offended you need to grow some nuts and stop the world turning you into a pussy

What can I say? You truly have balls of steel. In fact you are most assuredly the toughest, no-sh.t dude I have ever come across. Wow, it is too bad I never met any of you guys when I was serving my country in fast jets and other pussy stuff. I truly feel humbled.................. You are truly the man.

 

[Bismark]

Thats because they don't really know...they read it on the internet somewhere and assumed it must be true.

Like you I don't get "deep air amnesia"...in fact I think its bull**** except maybe doing big air dives to 300-400ft like Gilliam and the like did in the bad old days before He.

See my earlier post and paste it here again.

 

[Bismark]

I think you effectively nixxed that with your posts earlier in the thread.













Others may read this differently, but that sounds preachy as hell to me. I have no idea if you are GUE or not, but your arguments sound like they are straight out of the textbook, and your tone is exactly the same as other preachy GUE divers - rjack, "SparticleBrane", John B, RTodd etc etc.

You have the secret GUE textbook? You could make a lot of money from that.

Nice to see that you have been following the argument for the past few months though. The fact that you don't know if I am "gue or not" kind of says something don't you think?

 

[serrada]

On facts, you say that GUE doesn't permit air dives below 100'. Right? How is that depth determined?

I don't think air is in any one of GUE's standard gas mixes.

 

[peterbj7]

post deleted

 

[Bismark]

So why is that precisely how they are often perceived as behaving? How has it happened that there is so much "misinformation on the internet"? Could GUE divers be at least partly responsible for the generation of antipathy?

Actually I'm glad you mentioned GUE. That at last enables me to put what you have been saying into context, because it did seem to have a suggestion of "religious fervour".

On facts, you say that GUE doesn't permit air dives below 100'. Right? How is that depth determined?

Seems you are a guilty of painting with broad brush strokes as well. Too bad you have had some bad experience with some overzealous divers. You know what they say about the most recent convert being the strongest advocate. My guess is your experience was in the earlier years of GUE training? Just a guess here though.

As far as mentioning GUE, seems kind of silly to ignore the 800 lb elephant in the room when we talk about agencies advocating specific END's. You don't have to be a GUE member to know their position on deep air diving.

I will get back to you in regards to the depth question at the bottom of your post. I have to catch a ferry.

If we can keep this civil lets continue the debate and see where we end up. Helps to crystalize ideas and concepts for me so I find it useful.