Deep Air Diving - thoughts

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$13 a cubic ft? Ouch, even I might be looking for a CCR.......

Here is some interesting information from a friend of mine who is a diving doctor for our military as well as flight surgeon, as well as someone who has a fellowship at Duke University. I asked him about the possibility of a chamber ride to 165' on air to do some "experiments" similar to what we did in the chamber when I was learning to fly in high altitude aircraft, here are his words:

"There's a reasonable (though still inadequate) body of research on narcosis available in the literature. Interestingly, there appears to be a subjective tolerance that develops amongst divers exposed to narcotic depths that does not correlate to their objective testing results. IOW, divers don't feel drunk, but still perform as if they are (study conducted at 45 - 50 metres). Also, divers who consume alcohol regularly, are more likely to report less subjective narcosis than lesser drinkers. Again, their objective test results showed greater decrement than they thought present. There was a study published in the UHMS journal about this in the last issue or two."

Pretty much sums up what I have been saying in this thread.

The example of the 170' dive that became 190' could have easily become a 150' dive also. The depth range of 18/45 (and corresponding deco calculations) could have easily accomodated that depth. However, we couldn't even see the wreck from that depth. Of course we re-calculated our bottom gas available for the changed profile and adjusted our rock bottom while we were in the process of enjoying the dive. That is the very cool thing about some of the "battlefield calculations" that you can use with standardized gases. For me personally, I try not to lose sight of the fact that gases, equipment, etc are all just tools in my toolbox that let me enjoy the primary purpose of the exercise: exploring some place I have never been before. I learn to use the tools but don't let them overshadow the primary reason I am diving.

While I prefer not to dive air, I have no "compulsion" to not diving air if nitrox or mix is not available, within limits. I simply limit my depths and times. I find personally that I get more sub clinical DCS symptoms when I approach NDL limits on air than I do even after pushing the corresponding nitrox NDL's. I find this particularly after a series of dives over a series of days. Guess it must be my age. I still play competitive rugby so my cardio is pretty good but I definitely feel better if I can dive higher % of 02. Just my experience here and no hard science to back it up other than my own feedback from my body.
 
If gas becomes too expensive, many give up a 4WD and buy a small car. If helium also becomes too expensive as gas, many prepare to get used to narcosis with air.
 
If gas becomes too expensive, many give up a 4WD and buy a small car. If helium also becomes too expensive as gas, many prepare to get used to narcosis with air.

That won't be my choice. My personal risk-benefit analysis won't let me drive drunk if I don't have the cash for a taxi.

There are other options.
 
If you bank 32% in your banks for most of your regular dives.......

Then you take your empty trimix dive cylinders and fill them with 35% Helium, or 45% helium...etc.

Now top those cylinders up to operating pressure with your banked 32%. What do you suppose the finished mixes are? How about 21/35, 18/45, etc...... Pretty nifty right?
Who is banking 32% in your part of the world?
 
Try IDC in Vancouver (for mainland dives) and the new owner of what used to be Great Ocean Adventures in Victoria told me he is going to bank 32 also. He just took over 2 weeks ago and I saw his mixing stick but I don't know if he has it hooked up yet. He has a pile of banks there (the number 16 comes to mind) and his plan before he opened was to bank 32 and also be able to mix up to 50% He through his mix stick. Very cool piece of kit. Be nice to top off trimix cylinders instead of watching and hearing dollars hiss out the valve..... Does anyone in Nanaimo bank Nitrox? We are a bit behind the times here. In the last couple of years of pretty extensive traveling, (at least on the populated locations) a lot of places had 32% banked and ready to go. Made things nice and easy.
 
Try IDC in Vancouver (for mainland dives) and the new owner of what used to be Great Ocean Adventures in Victoria told me he is going to bank 32 also. He just took over 2 weeks ago and I saw his mixing stick but I don't know if he has it hooked up yet. He has a pile of banks there (the number 16 comes to mind) and his plan before he opened was to bank 32 and also be able to mix up to 50% He through his mix stick. Very cool piece of kit. Be nice to top off trimix cylinders instead of watching and hearing dollars hiss out the valve..... Does anyone in Nanaimo bank Nitrox? We are a bit behind the times here. In the last couple of years of pretty extensive traveling, (at least on the populated locations) a lot of places had 32% banked and ready to go. Made things nice and easy.
The point is unless you are in a heavily populated area and do a lot of business in "standard" mixes banking 32% nitrox requires a fairly large investment in bank bottles and has fairly limited application.
I think this is the underlying message behind this thread. There are places and times when certain styles of diving philosophies are practical and times when they aren't the best fit. GUE tends to be a "one size fits all" type of philosphy that tries to make every situation fit into a style of diving developed for and best suited to Florida caves. We don't have cheap helium or banked 32% on every street corner here so we adapt and think outside the box and make it work with what is available to us. While my personal limits of narcosis tolerance may be greater than yours it is certainly quite a bit less than some who have replied to this thread. I do my own personal risk assessment and dive to the limits I set for myself. I don't need others to tell me where those boundaries exist I have enough experience to make that call for myself. I think you will find that many responders to this thread have found the same thing and are making their own risk/reward assessment. No matter how firmly you preach the DIR company line many of us will continue to think for ourselves and arrive at different conclusions.
 
The point is unless you are in a heavily populated area and do a lot of business in "standard" mixes banking 32% nitrox requires a fairly large investment in bank bottles and has fairly limited application.
I think this is the underlying message behind this thread. There are places and times when certain styles of diving philosophies are practical and times when they aren't the best fit. GUE tends to be a "one size fits all" type of philosphy that tries to make every situation fit into a style of diving developed for and best suited to Florida caves. We don't have cheap helium or banked 32% on every street corner here so we adapt and think outside the box and make it work with what is available to us. While my personal limits of narcosis tolerance may be greater than yours it is certainly quite a bit less than some who have replied to this thread. I do my own personal risk assessment and dive to the limits I set for myself. I don't need others to tell me where those boundaries exist I have enough experience to make that call for myself. I think you will find that many responders to this thread have found the same thing and are making their own risk/reward assessment. No matter how firmly you preach the DIR company line many of us will continue to think for ourselves and arrive at different conclusions.

Dave, your post is loaded with a bunch of stuff that I was hoping we had moved past in this thread. It is clear that you have some very firmly bedded opinions on the matter and I have no interest in trying to change your opinions, nor do I have any right to expect you to. Maybe we can revisit this over a beer after a dive sometime.
 
Dave, your post is loaded with a bunch of stuff that I was hoping we had moved past in this thread. It is clear that you have some very firmly bedded opinions on the matter and I have no interest in trying to change your opinions, nor do I have any right to expect you to. Maybe we can revisit this over a beer after a dive sometime.

Ah yes but I am far more tolerant of DIR divers in real life than I am on the internet. I happen to know the reverse is also true. :D
Just got back from diving some caves on the Island so I haven't followed this thread closely.
I'll dive or drink with you anyday
 
Guess it must be my age. I still play competitive rugby so my cardio is pretty good but I definitely feel better if I can dive higher % of 02.

oh oh. the man's a rugger! can't trust anything he says due to extreme likelihood of brain damage from blunt force trauma and extensive post-game debriefing in the pub! :D

-north leamington school - loosehead prop, flanker, #8
-indian hill high - fly half, winger
-university of cincinnati - left wing
-atlanta, Old White - wing
 
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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