Death at Windy Point 6/18/05

[ianr33]

I'm new to diving, so if someone would explain to me some things. I understand the seriousness of no deco stops, but what did the writer mean "he went to 163ft on air"? What else would you go on? Nitrox? Trimix? or is she saying he went past his training limit? and if he was coming up without deco causing a rupture...why would his air run out after that problem, unless he was already out and was attempting emergency swimming ascent?

Twinklez

I dont know as I was not there but I would be very surprised if this unfortunate individual found himself at that depth by design.My self imposed depth limit in Travis is 130 feet without Trimix (not certified for that yet) The water temperature at 163 feet is probably in the mid 50's. There will be absolutely no ambient light.(Does anybody know if the victim had a light?) Visibility the last few weeks below 100 feet has been maybe 2 feet due to a large amount of particulate matter. An inexperienced diver finding himself at that depth is going to have MAJOR problems due to narcosis,cold and vis.

Travis gets deep very quickly. Be Careful!

 

[iflexsol]

Very sad news. Condolences to all those involved in this tragedy.

 

[android]

I dont know as I was not there but I would be very surprised if this unfortunate individual found himself at that depth by design.

How would you get to 163 ft accidentally?

I could understand if he had a wetsuit compression/runaway descent, but if that were the case, he would have been found on the bottom of the lake, not floating on the surface.

Other than that, you'd have to ignore excessive ear clearing and your depth gauge to a great degree.

 

[kabluton]

I'm new to diving, so if someone would explain to me some things. I understand the seriousness of no deco stops, but what did the writer mean "he went to 163ft on air"? What else would you go on? Nitrox? Trimix? or is she saying he went past his training limit? and if he was coming up without deco causing a rupture...why would his air run out after that problem, unless he was already out and was attempting emergency swimming ascent?

Twinklez

The person that wrote "he went to 163 ft on air" meant that it is usually not advisable to go that deep 1.) as a recreational diver and 2.) on a regular air 21% oxygen mix. Nitrogen Narcosis sets in around 100 ft on air and that is why PADI revised the recreational (non deep) limit to 100 ft. You can take the PADI Deep Diver specialty which will allow you to dive to 130 ft but that is the generally accepted depth limit for non-technical divers.

 

[Crazyduck]

I am confused--- I was assisting with a class that day at Windy Point. He was not one of my students... what "legal ramifications"? I had no duty of care for this person?

Please speak with your Instructor and Dive store owner to better understand what is going to happen.

If you have specific questions of me then please PM me…

This thread was never meant to upset staff members but we must remember that we live in a terribly litigious society.

I commend the people that were there and worked their butts off to try and save this person… Thank you.

 

[JWU42]

How would you get to 163 ft accidentally?

I could understand if he had a wetsuit compression/runaway descent, but if that were the case, he would have been found on the bottom of the lake, not floating on the surface.

Other than that, you'd have to ignore excessive ear clearing and your depth gauge to a great degree.

At 100+' in the dark with no viz (as stated above roughly 2') and being narced out of your head things can go bad quick. This is not the place for a recreational diver.

I know I am ok to 100' in warm clear water in SE FL but would be apprehensive if I was to jump into 55-60 degree black water at 100' in essentially zero viz. At that time I would thumb the dive.

As to the equalization comment - remember that the greatest differential is the first 33'. Past that you have to equalize far less often.

 

[Tom725]

How he got to 160+ feet is easy, once you get narced it is easy to lose track of your dive including debth and how much air you have. If at 160+ feet he ran out of air and dropped his weights he would have had an uncontrolled ascent. It appears he pushed the limits of his abilities, training and equipment and paid the price.

 

[Teknadv3x]

How he got to 160+ feet is easy, once you get narced it is easy to lose track of your dive including debth and how much air you have. If at 160+ feet he ran out of air and dropped his weights he would have had an uncontrolled ascent. It appears he pushed the limits of his abilities, training and equipment and paid the price.

I agree with Tom, some where in the dive, the diver lost control of the dive and thing probally feel apart very rapidly. He then fell back on his training, Dropped his weight belt and inflated his bc. The most productive thing to do at this point in time is learn from what has happened.

My deepest condolences to his family.

Dave

 

[mongoose]

Just finished my AOW at Windy Point today and got a little more information on the death. Extremely preliminary and not casting stones. The diver was diving solo and not certified for that. He had an AL 80 and his computer, which is locked out for 48 hours, show a max depth of 167 feet. The information that they were able to get off the computer so far is that his ascent rate from 167 feet to the surface was .....
33 seconds. His tank was empty and his bc was full due to normal expansion.

Yesterday I reported that someone had been signaled that they needed help but it could not have been this person.

33 Seconds?!!! Holy Cow!

Based upon what I have read, here in this thread, he also had no air in the tank, and lots of blood in his airway. As a total newbie diver, I might SPECULATE FOR THE PURPOSES OF DISCUSSION ONLY(as some others had) that he wanted to do a solo dive, he lost track of his depth, got narced, not only losing track of his air, but also using it faster. When he finally hit the end of his tank, he looked at his computer. Horrified to realize that he was at 167 feet with no air, he panicked(his panic amplified by narcosis), instictively held his breath, and bolted to the surface. Before hitting the surface, he AGE'd, losing consciousness on the way up. Whatever air was in his BC bladder had expanded rapidly on the way up, and kept him going to the surface, until he arrived.

I would be curious as to whether he was still wearing his weights.

I can attest to the viz at Travis. Yeesh. Due to my own misunderstanding of a DM's instruction(my mistake, NOT his), I got separated from my buddy at the 30' platform after an AOW training deep dive, and I mean it happened in an INSTANT.

In any event I sit here, early in the morning as I read this thread. When I first read and thought about it, I sat and thought for a moment about what that poor man's last moments must have been like. It's not easy to think about.

It's also not easy to admit to having made a similar mistake myself. I was on my first ocean dive, and couldn't get my suit's bouyancy under control. I didn't want to mess up another group's dive so I went solo, and decided I would "Be Real Careful". What a galactically foolish thing for me to do. Of course nothing happened, the suit worked fine, and I got the hang of it, once I learned to shake the air out of the arms & legs. Then I looked at my computer. And realized I was at 63 feet. Alone. In the ocean. No one else in sight. Beyond the depth I was trained for. I immediate carefully ascended up the slope of shore, found a group, and hung with them until time to surface.

Up until now, I thought of that sort of benignly, "Haha! Yeah, I probably should have avoided doing that. Oh, well." It was the one and only time I have ever entered open water alone, and now I have some serious pause when I realize: THAT COULD EASILY HAVE BEEN ME. I'll say it again. THAT COULD EASILY HAVE BEEN ME.

If I allow my self to violate some safety rule, the fact that nothing happens reinforces that behavior, and encourages me to do it again. Or violate something else. And then something else. Pretty soon, I'm penetrating wrecks at 140' at night with no line on a single AL80 with no training. Even before the ocean incident, I wouldn't even allow myself to swim through the shark at Terrell. And still...look what I did. It's so easy to screw up, so easy to get complacent.

I (and I guess we all, but I can only speak for me) have to be really diligent not to let bad judgement creep up on us.

I apologize, I did not mean to turn this into a post about me, just some thoughts from a new guy.

Take care...
--'Goose

P.S. I hope you guys will still want to dive with me after my confessions.

 

[humanphibian]

IF he even could even SEE his computer. I'd imagine with all of the bloom, he was in blackwater at around 60'. Did he even have a light with him?

Very sad event.

33 Seconds?!!! Holy Cow!

Based upon what I have read, here in this thread, he also had no air in the tank, and lots of blood in his airway. As a total newbie diver, I might SPECULATE FOR THE PURPOSES OF DISCUSSION ONLY(as some others had) that he wanted to do a solo dive, he lost track of his depth, got narced, not only losing track of his air, but also using it faster. When he finally hit the end of his tank, he looked at his computer. Horrified to realize that he was at 167 feet with no air, he panicked(his panic amplified by narcosis), instictively held his breath, and bolted to the surface. Before hitting the surface, he AGE'd, losing consciousness on the way up. Whatever air was in his BC bladder had expanded rapidly on the way up, and kept him going to the surface, until he arrived.

I would be curious as to whether he was still wearing his weights.

I can attest to the viz at Travis. Yeesh. Due to my own misunderstanding of a DM's instruction(my mistake, NOT his), I got separated from my buddy at the 30' platform after an AOW training deep dive, and I mean it happened in an INSTANT.

In any event I sit here, early in the morning as I read this thread. When I first read and thought about it, I sat and thought for a moment about what that poor man's last moments must have been like. It's not easy to think about.

It's also not easy to admit to having made a similar mistake myself. I was on my first ocean dive, and couldn't get my suit's bouyancy under control. I didn't want to mess up another group's dive so I went solo, and decided I would "Be Real Careful". What a galactically foolish thing for me to do. Of course nothing happened, the suit worked fine, and I got the hang of it, once I learned to shake the air out of the arms & legs. Then I looked at my computer. And realized I was at 63 feet. Alone. In the ocean. No one else in sight. Beyond the depth I was trained for. I immediate carefully ascended up the slope of shore, found a group, and hung with them until time to surface.

Up until now, I thought of that sort of benignly, "Haha! Yeah, I probably should have avoided doing that. Oh, well." It was the one and only time I have ever entered open water alone, and now I have some serious pause when I realize: THAT COULD EASILY HAVE BEEN ME. I'll say it again. THAT COULD EASILY HAVE BEEN ME.

If I allow my self to violate some safety rule, the fact that nothing happens reinforces that behavior, and encourages me to do it again. Or violate something else. And then something else. Pretty soon, I'm penetrating wrecks at 140' at night with no line on a single AL80 with no training. Even before the ocean incident, I wouldn't even allow myself to swim through the shark at Terrell. And still...look what I did. It's so easy to screw up, so easy to get complacent.

I (and I guess we all, but I can only speak for me) have to be really diligent not to let bad judgement creep up on us.

I apologize, I did not mean to turn this into a post about me, just some thoughts from a new guy.

Take care...
--'Goose

P.S. I hope you guys will still want to dive with me after my confessions.